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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

R4 now Tuesday 7.51 am

541 replies

somethinginoffensive · 08/06/2021 07:52

Discussing Stonewall.

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LizzieSiddal · 09/06/2021 17:06

Stop male violence, and then we can talk.

I use this line in “discussions” about Trans rights and it’s very effective. For those who come back with “BNAM”, I say then why do we have single sex spaces now?

IntoAir · 09/06/2021 17:52

Wanting privacy from male people is fine all by itself. Privacy, dignity, emotional comfort

Just the freedom to be amongst only women, and free from all the gender stereotype & socialised gender roles bullshit.

Most women really really like this. We need it - living with the enemy-oppressor is exhausting & sometimes we need to be ourselves.

Erikrie · 09/06/2021 18:01

ForeverFaithless that comment is priceless. Perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

MaudTheInvincible · 09/06/2021 18:10

Stop male violence, and then we can talk.

R4 now Tuesday 7.51 am
Datun · 09/06/2021 18:29

@MaudTheInvincible

Stop male violence, and then we can talk.
Yes, she's nailed it.
Cailleach1 · 09/06/2021 19:40

@WeeBisom

Wow, Ben does NOT appreciate being called shrill. He is SO salty about it. Women are just so used to being called hysterical - I've never seen a woman launch into this massive justification about why, in fact, she didn't sound 'stuttery'. He's really pressed about it.
Gosh, he is a vain little man (if that is how he identifies). He appeared to have lied on radio that Stonewall haven't campaigned for the removal of single sex spaces. Yet, it is apparently written down in print that they wanted those removed. And he is navel gazing about is how people are remarking on his shrill voice.

Just a distraction. Would it have been better to have told what seem to be lies in a calm, even voice? His claim for the gold in the disadvantage Olympics was taking up time instead of answering the questions he couldn't handle.

Cry me a river. Many have health problems and don't think that automatically gives us the right to try to remove rights from other people. He (I'm assuming) isn't too laden down with respect or integrity.

I hope he'd exhibit such angst if he ever thought about the ethics of hiring a woman to have a baby. Or guilt worrying about any health consequences she may suffer as a result.

Just 'Oh my god, the haters are saying I have a shrill voice. The haters, how abusive. My voice isn't shrill'. Of course, I'm sure the Pen is News is an example of respect towards women and GLB people who are unashamedly same sex attracted. But don't say someone has a shrill voice, or you're the worst hater.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 09/06/2021 19:54

His voice was the worst takeaway from this? That’s what he thinks? Not that he didn’t do a good job and got facts wrong - and basically called everyone nasty-stinky-Poo-bums?

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 09/06/2021 20:14

His voice was the worst takeaway from this?

I've no idea how much the MS affects his voice quality. I understand how he might feel sensitive about it. (Other explanations are available.)

DeeKavCoffee · 10/06/2021 04:11

@EmbarrassingAdmissions

His voice was the worst takeaway from this?

I've no idea how much the MS affects his voice quality. I understand how he might feel sensitive about it. (Other explanations are available.)

yes and apart from MS i think calling him 'hysterical' (like JC did) and 'shrill' and 'screeching' are very loaded, homophobic terms in the context...we all know (or are) women who have been called those terms and we know its sexism. we can attack his arguments without stopping to the level of attacking his voice or looks in homophobic terms
DeeKavCoffee · 10/06/2021 04:15

also Justin Webb was not exactly acting as impartial to both men...wonder is he an ally? Grin

he got very angry too but i dont see him being called shrill or hysterical...maybe them who are saying it should have a word with themselves

SchadenfreudePersonified · 10/06/2021 08:16

Because he was neither shrill nor hysterical Dee.

I wouldn't have called Ben those things, personally, but he did get very ranty, wouldn't answer questions, tried to make propaganda statements, lied, and started a "discrimination top trumps" which was highly offensive.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 10/06/2021 08:17

Plus I don't think Justin came across as angry - more exasperated.

Ben was like a small child having a hissy fit, and did his cause no good.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/06/2021 08:23

Well yes. The amount of threats of sexual violence addressed towards women for saying they want single sex spaces kind of proves the point.

But safety is not the only reason female people want, need and should be entitled to spaces with only other female people. Wanting privacy from male people is fine all by itself. Privacy, dignity, emotional comfort - all things valued as important and pressing for male people who do not want to be with other male people but not tolerated at all for female people who do not want to be with male people.

And some women will be excluded from women's single sex spaces if any male enters. Regardless of how safe or lovely that male is. This is the insurmountable bit. The first job of a female single sex space is to meet the needs inclusively of all females. A mixed sex space is by definition going to be exclusive of some females.

However hard it may be to accept, some female people need sex based definitions and sex based boundaries that male people need to respect. Equality of respect for both sexes by both sexes is most of the problem here.

This. We deserve our feelings to be respected as much as trans people do. I'm sick of being told they don't count.

CardinalLolzy · 10/06/2021 09:26

I'm confused. Who's called BC 'shrill' etc? The original interview didn't contain any name-calling like that apart from BC calling the belief in two sexes 'transphobic'.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 10/06/2021 09:48

@CardinalLolzy

I'm confused. Who's called BC 'shrill' etc? The original interview didn't contain any name-calling like that apart from BC calling the belief in two sexes 'transphobic'.
I should think it's a Twitter thing - I doubt it was anybody other than a random commenter.
toffeebutterpopcorn · 10/06/2021 09:49

Funny how women are just used to being called ‘hysterical fishwives’.

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