R4 now Tuesday 7.51 am

[somethinginoffensive]

Discussing Stonewall.

@Taliskerskye

PM Is a news programme on Radio 4 starts at 5pm. You can look it up on BBC sounds.

Thanks Talisker

I was so pleased to be at that Baroness Nicholson webinar and knew some of the names from on here, SSA, Katie Alcock and more. Felt part of things!

Go to 33.43

Thank you nauticant

Someone on Twatter has compared BC congratulating himself to Prince Andrew immediately after the Emily Maitliss interview, when he said he thought it went rather well.

😂😂😂

they were 1 minute late for the weather as it was. it is normally at 7.57, then time for a trailer.

the weather forecasters are excellent at adapting their forecast to fit.

ALl interviews are cut short in a similar way, especially coming up to the weather or pips.

Just caught a throwaway comment which may or may not be relevant on Wednesday's Today. At ~7:33 (+/- 2 mins) there was something about the England manager saying they shouldn't shy away from matters outside sport and then the female presenter said 'And on that note, top man Justin' as she handed over the to man, who I presume was Justin Webb. I might be reading too much into things though.

And on that note, top man Justin'

It must have been so hard for thousands of BBC staff. Acts of rebellion, even tiny, are something I hope we see more of

Hang on she was reading the racing tip for Fontwell today at 2.00 - a horse called Top Man.
I agree her inflexion and delivery was interesting and Justin laughed.

Oh was she? Sorry. How disappointing.

I still read a tiny bit into it though !

The BBC has a legal duty to be non political so presenters do have to be careful what they say in their personal tweets and that kind of thing and on the shows. However they can certainly press people hard on issues - it is part of that for which we pay our licence fee (and for me radio 4 news is a good bit of why I pay the fee (I watch no live TV)).

The BBC will be full of what was mentioned on PM yesterday - woke left and liberal left (and just about no one like I am - I have voted conservative since 1979 but since before that have been very sympathetic to trans people as I had a rush of reading library books - biographies of people like April Ashley in my teens as it is such an interesting topic - I just don't want women's rights damaged in the process).

It was joyous; I smiled all day. Cohen was so aggressive, self-absorbed, inarticulate and fanatical in the face of calm and reason from Fanshawe and JW. He did his cause no favours. Happy days.

The best outcome would be for Cohen to reflect on what happened and to see how he might engage more productively in the future.

twitter.com/benjamincohen/status/1402592163947499522

Oh.

The best outcome would be for Cohen to reflect on what happened and to see how he might engage more productively in the future

Ahh, the stick the fingers in the ears technique and pretend all is right in the world.

I see.

😂

I've just listened to it again. It's such a stupid argument. He doesn't understand the concept of discrimination. We discriminate all the time. Ben Cohen discriminates against half the population when it comes to his dating pool.

Women discriminate against men when it comes to sex segregated spaces.

And as Maya Forstater pointed out, we discriminate against short people when it comes to Disney rides.

He appears to think that all discrimination is wrong. When it's just the ability to distinguish between two different things.

Discriminating against men because, as a class, they constitute a risk, is perfectly bloody acceptable. And something that has been understood for centuries.

It never ceases to amaze me, the bloody cheek of all this. Stop male violence, and then we can talk. Not threaten male violence, because you're not getting your way (not directed to Cohen).

It’s not even that, surely. Being able to distinguish between people is not the same as discrimination against them.

Ben Cohen seems to want us to pretend we can’t tell male from female. I mean, I guess it’s sometimes difficult, but usually it’s very obvious. Wish he’d acknowledge that.

More honesty is required.

I wonder if he will take her up on her offer?

(warning - very offensive language in the screenshot)

twitter.com/melissawright75/status/1402605771502858240

I think we can see the implications of NK saying GC beliefs are akin to anti semitism....?

Male privilege, time and time again. They don't or won't understand when they are so steeped in their own privilege

[quote WinterTrees]I enjoyed this whole twitter thread. 'Ben Cohen's performance on the Today programme only with a gif"

twitter.com/AMMcCormack2/status/1402162109757247493[/quote]
Oh my goodness, that has made me laugh so much I’ve given myself a bit of a headache! The pink pedal car gif just sent me into wheezing hysterics.

Like BC I have MS. Unlike him, I don’t go around waving it like a card to give me license to be a big plonker. Quite uncomfortable with the way he seems to think disability = no one can argue with him. It feels infantilising, I can’t quite articulate it.

I’m going back to watch those gifs again, marvellous 😂

It never ceases to amaze me, the bloody cheek of all this. Stop male violence, and then we can talk. Not threaten male violence, because you're not getting your way (not directed to Cohen)

Julie Bindel says this clearly & beautifully in her conversation with Benjamin Boyce. His (faux?) naivety can be irritating, but in this case it allows Ms Bindel to be crystal clear & lay things out at the fundamental level.

(You can listen as a podcast as well: "The Boyce of Reason")

I think this is my favourite interaction so far

Stop male violence, and then we can talk. Not threaten male violence, because you're not getting your way

Well yes. The amount of threats of sexual violence addressed towards women for saying they want single sex spaces kind of proves the point.

But safety is not the only reason female people want, need and should be entitled to spaces with only other female people. Wanting privacy from male people is fine all by itself. Privacy, dignity, emotional comfort - all things valued as important and pressing for male people who do not want to be with other male people but not tolerated at all for female people who do not want to be with male people.

And some women will be excluded from women's single sex spaces if any male enters. Regardless of how safe or lovely that male is. This is the insurmountable bit. The first job of a female single sex space is to meet the needs inclusively of all females. A mixed sex space is by definition going to be exclusive of some females.

However hard it may be to accept, some female people need sex based definitions and sex based boundaries that male people need to respect. Equality of respect for both sexes by both sexes is most of the problem here.

@Artichokeleaves

Stop male violence, and then we can talk. Not threaten male violence, because you're not getting your way

Well yes. The amount of threats of sexual violence addressed towards women for saying they want single sex spaces kind of proves the point.

But safety is not the only reason female people want, need and should be entitled to spaces with only other female people. Wanting privacy from male people is fine all by itself. Privacy, dignity, emotional comfort - all things valued as important and pressing for male people who do not want to be with other male people but not tolerated at all for female people who do not want to be with male people.

And some women will be excluded from women's single sex spaces if any male enters. Regardless of how safe or lovely that male is. This is the insurmountable bit. The first job of a female single sex space is to meet the needs inclusively of all females. A mixed sex space is by definition going to be exclusive of some females.

However hard it may be to accept, some female people need sex based definitions and sex based boundaries that male people need to respect. Equality of respect for both sexes by both sexes is most of the problem here.

Yes indeed. It was more a throwaway comment to highlight something that's never going to happen, as a solution to something that they don't want solving.

@ForeverFaithless

I think this is my favourite interaction so far

This is gold!

Wow, Ben does NOT appreciate being called shrill. He is SO salty about it. Women are just so used to being called hysterical - I've never seen a woman launch into this massive justification about why, in fact, she didn't sound 'stuttery'. He's really pressed about it.