R4 now Tuesday 7.51 am

[somethinginoffensive]

Discussing Stonewall.

Oh dear Ben isn't getting the adulation I think he expected on Twitter. He's been corrected several times on his misrepresentation of Stonewalls position on single sex spaces.

A response to Jeffrey Ingold, Stonewall head of media, now on "sabbatical" while apparently toting for other work, being called out on trying to claim that excluding MTF trans people from women's spaces was illegal and that single sex exceptions didn't apply to them, while simultaneously campaigning to remove the exceptions in the case of trans people.

twitter.com/HairyLeggdHarpy/status/1178360950036062210?s=20

Did anyone notice Justin mentioned Transsexual though? Probably a slip, but that's exactly what the vast public think Trans is. Great listening though, I really enjoyed it!

Well that was a car crash for Ben Cohen. He came across very badly.

I'd also like them to be confronted with a woman who says I do not give my consent for male individuals to be in my space. What do you say to that?

I guess this is why they didn't invite a woman on with Cohen there.

Oh dear. I wonder if BC regards 'hostile' as not letting him (or whatever preferred pronoun) misrepresent the truth, cast aspersions on people, and just rant away instead of engaging in the discussion.

I suppose they could have invited a female TRA ally, but I don't think that would have made them look very good.

The thing is, prominent trans people like. Paris Lees are always talking about how they turn down interviews because 'I'm not prepared to debate my existence', but then everyone moans that there are no trans people in these sorts of interviews.

I’m glad James Kirkup has provided the evidence.
We all know Ben was lying when he said Stonewall were not trying to remove the Single sex exceptions from the Equality act.

That was fabulous.
It felt like the last few years distilled into 10 minutes.
On the one hand, calm, reason, facts, clear exposition of the issues, truth, willingness to debate.
On the other hand, ranting, misrepresentation, hypocrisy, refusal to engage, oppression Olympics.
Thank you, Justin.

'I'm not prepared to debate my existence' is a lazy excuse to avoid having to admit that there is a clash between women’s rights and trans rights.

This is superb stuff

doubly so as we all knew it would happen

that when the nodebaters came out and debated they would get trounced

Stonewall is like an aging boxing champion who has been avoiding the young challenger for years and who have received a good pasting after they finally come out to fight

Just listened. That was bloody glorious! Not for Ben obviously , whataboutism, hole digging, lying, hostility, leaning towards GC views with antisemitism (not outright but by refusing to acknowledge NK did so by the by), calling GC people outright transphobes, polished off with incoherent ranting at the presenter at the end, who gave us a nice reminder that Stonewall refused to take part - after the NK interview though I'm not surprised.

He went straight on the attack and Justin Webb wasn't having it. Lovely.

I'm glad the BBC have finally given some airtime to this issue, after BBC online news article after news article of trans stories and not one peep about Marion Millar, which the papers have been covering.

'I'm not prepared to debate my existence' is a lazy excuse to avoid having to admit that there is a clash between women’s rights and trans rights.

It is. And it doesn't cut it any more, TRAs. The time of #nodebate is long over. Get Over It.

Omg, I've just listened to the catch up. How utterly fabulous.

Well done Justin and Simon. So much sunlight.

Benjamin Cohen on the other hand clearly hasn't got a clue what he's talking about. Either he simply doesn't understand, or he's a very (poor) liar.

Oooh! Will they be calling Simon a 'dog whistler?

Poor Simon's been called a lot worse than that.

Ben obviously in a cozy little world surrounded by sycophants and fellow travellers, getting paid handsomely by his corporate backed website to pump out propaganda that is never fact checked,

He has simply been blinded by the cold light of day.

The wonderful Karen Ingala Smith has transcribed some of the interview!

kareningalasmith.com/2021/06/08/truth-lies-and-storytelling/

BC was clearly lying about what Stonewall is campaigning for, and indeed what Nancy Kelley said.

Justin's huffs and sighs were beautiful

Although I was shocked R4 could get away with 3 men discussing a women's rights issue without actually talking about women - nor being one, obviously - perhaps that is what it needs for more people to listen. Silly hysterical wimmin banging on vs men actually taking notice.

Cohen could off given up his place to a trans person surely to be interviewed as he was moaning that there was no trans person on

@WarriorN

Benjamin has apologised for assuming Justin's gender identity

I look forward to many more satisfying moments like this. Leeeet the sunshine in, leeeeet the sunshine in!

I was driving listening to that but absolutely loved it. Well done Justin.

Is there scope to complain about BC’s open lies about Stonewall not campaigning for an end to single sex spaces?

There are a lot of upset peeps on Twatter - worrashame, eh?

@Letsgetreadytocrumble

The thing is, prominent trans people like. Paris Lees are always talking about how they turn down interviews because 'I'm not prepared to debate my existence', but then everyone moans that there are no trans people in these sorts of interviews.

They started doing that in the hope that the BBC would cancel the piece rather than go ahead with only presenting one side. This seemed to work for a while. The BBC now seem to make more effort to find someone to put forward the TRA side rather than cancel. On Newsnight once a couple of years ago the only person they seemed to be able to find for this was Aimee Challenor.