GRA Reform, Legal Self Declaration, has no effect on access to spaces

[ool0n]

I'm wondering given the recent convincing defeat of gender critical ideology in the high court vs EHRC - if the Mumsnet gender critical people finally accept the fact that having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces?

People on the other side of the debate like myself have been explaining to GC people on Twitter for years that having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces so their objection to GRA reform is/was unfounded. I/we based this on -

1. English government legal analysis that stated having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces
2. Scottish government legal analysis ... ditto ...
3. The EA 2010 and GA 2004 text
4. The practical impossibility that a BC (Not an ID document) could be of any use in deciding access

now we have

1. Gender critical crowdfunded challenge to EHRC guidance that says having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces. Comprehensively lost, not even passed the very low bar to even be considered for a Judicial Review.

Given this is the case will gender critical people be reevaluating their assertion "Self ID", as in GRA Reform, must be opposed as it effects access to spaces? Trans people have always been able to "Self ID", in the colloquial sense, into men's and women's spaces. So making it easier for trans people to change their birth certificates only helps them, has no effect on GC feminists, and/or cisgender women and spaces.

(I also wonder if there'll be any introspection as to why an obviously incorrect interpretation of the law was able to become so prevalent in gender critical circles. Maybe listen to groups outside of GC circles a bit more?)

Happy to listen to other voices, OP.

How can women preserve our rights and keep males out of single sex spaces?

I don't think anything illustrates the gulf between male and female socialisation better than the view that, if transwomen are not challenged in female only spaces, it must be because they pass.

@spoonrider

"Any man can identify as a woman, all they have to do is say they intend to transition and they're covered under 'gender reassignment'. Any man includes paedophiles, rapists, and voyeurs."

If you could grab a male family member and get them to test this theory, I'd be grateful.

Ask them to go to the women's gym and simply say that they intend to transition. Please let us know if the staff let him into the women's facilities.

Perhaps he could post photos when he does? (well, when he doesn't get in because it won't work, will it, despite what you claim?).

They are posted. All over. sites called this never happens.

This never happens is an argument that is at least five years out of date.

People on the other side of the debate like myself have been explaining to GC people on Twitter for years that having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces so their objection to GRA reform is/was unfounded.

An alternative argument by academic and feminist Dr EM published by Uncommonground Media:

'Repeal the Gender Recognition Act, a Homophobic and Sexist Relic'
February 8, 2021

(extract)
The Gender Recognition Act is a leftover from before gay marriage was legalised, and is founded on sexist pseudoscience. It must be repealed.
It is not illegal in the U.K. to wear clothes described as for the opposite sex. David Bowie, Boy George and others were not arrested for wearing make-up. Boys I grew up with commonly wore eye-liner. If one faced discrimination based on what one was wearing, for example, not gaining a promotion at work because one was male who liked to wear skirts, a claim of sex discrimination could and should be taken. The GRA was originally passed with homophobic intentions, to prevent having to legislate same-sex marriage, and that legal barrier and inequality has thankfully been removed. The GRA, the sex-role stereotype recognition Act, does not serve to right a legislative injustice but rather to entrench a world-view. This creed is one where women’s oppression is natural and desired, same-sex attraction is bigotry which can be unlearnt and individual men get to define reality based on their wishes. It is a dogma where children who do not conform to strict social categories of boyish and girlish are declared to have been born wrong. The suffix ‘ism’ denotes that this is a belief system, like how ‘ism’ is added to feminism, Catholicism, conservatism, liberalism. It frightens and offends me that the government has endorsed these doctrines through legislation which intends to compel belief and subscription." (continues)
uncommongroundmedia.com/repeal-the-gender-recognition-act-a-homophobic-and-sexist-relic/

Yes.

I don't think spoon is ready to hear that some of us have family members and friends who are trans. That would mean they lose the ability to believe we just don't know any trans person, let alone any who disagree with them!

*They are posted. All over. sites called this never happens.

This never happens is an argument that is at least five years out of date.*

Ah yes, the 'it will never happens' argument. Like no transwoman has made it to the Olympics since the change in IOC ruling so transwomen should play against females. Oh look, one qualified, 20 years older than their competition and lousy in their sport when classified as a man.

Just like the transwoman who rape in womens prisons, transwoman who post pics of their 'morning wood' in the bathroom of a woman refuge, the transwoman who assaults women in a hospital ward.

Now waiting for the 'it is only one, don't tar us all with the same brush' argument.

Whatever happened that made OP go from 'we just want to pee' to 'you can't stop us, so suck it up'? Women saying no that hard to swallow? Or the fact providers can exclude you suddenly makes you realise you don't meet the criteria of being of the female sex?

That's correct. It might have been harder to judge in a photo but, in real life, it was obvious.

I also never let on that it was obvious. That's female socialisation for you.

Soz, multiple cross post, I should have used the quote poster function.

OP, if everything is as you say, then why are you here?

You are free in law, according to your view, to use any woman's space as you please. No woman can stop you.

So, why are you here?

Single sex spaces are an exemption in the Equality Act, made to allow the sex that is disadvantaged to participate in society on an equal footing.
Men, no matter how they identify, are never permitted to use a breastfeeding room.

The clue is in the language;
single sex spaces.
gender recognition act.

Shit, she must have got the wrong end of the testosterone stick.

This is why puberty blockers are such a must have for young male children who feel transgender. The criteria in the judgement yesterday was that transwomen should be indistinguishable from women. Once gone through male puberty, that is so much more difficult to achieve, which means transwomen will get challenged more and more.

Of course this is only fully clothed. The difference will be very noticable when in say communal changing rooms.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

I don't think spoon is ready to hear that some of us have family members and friends who are trans. That would mean they lose the ability to believe we just don't know any trans person, let alone any who disagree with them!

I know. Where do they imagine gender critical parents of trans teens talk about this stuff??

There's even a board here entirely dedicated to it.

It's not lack of experience, it's disagreement.

It's a skill that most women have.

I'm AMAZED that you can! Well done for this skill!

I always think most men/males never realise how good women are at judging the sex of another person. For women it becomes second nature, call it survival instinct or something. Men/males don't need so don't seem to have it.

... Well I'm convinced. Men can clearly be women because they say so and have made other people say so too. No more gender criticism activism for me

I'm not surprised that you're amazed though spoon.