Britain's youngest trans child

[poshme]

Article in daily fail (sorry)

4 year old female twin says she is a boy (like her twin brother) and expresses interest in firefighters & police officers & doesn't like pigtails.

So the parents are transitioning their 4 year old and saying they have grown up conversations about gender with them.

Sigh.

@AryaStarkWolf

Bloody hell, I was the only girl with 3 brothers, I wanted to be a boy when i was 4 too, it seemed like more fun and the clothes were a lot more comfortable, I had many battles with my mother at that age about wearing dresses. I would have been transed nowadays

I am slightly ashamed to confess that apparently I bit my mother on one occasion at age six, when she tried to get me into a party dress, but at least she had the sense to realise that i didnt "identify" as a boy!

@mollythemeerkat as a dog maybe?

[quote AryaStarkWolf]@mollythemeerkat as a dog maybe? [/quote]
Or more likely a meerkat?

Thanks @Delphinium20 - I'm very proud of her.

To my shame I remember in infants when they had a Fairytale Day at school and she went as a Troll (and I mean a proper Billy Goats Gruff troll not a shiny pink haired troll . I was so worried for her when all the other girls were Cinderella, Belle etc. Thankfully she had a wonderful teacher who asked her what she was and when she told him he beamed at her and said "How wonderful". It's now one of my fondest memories

@CaveMum

Vegan Cat Syndrome again.

Am I missing a reference?

I'm sorry but why isn't this considered as child abuse?

Outrageous behaviour in behalf of the parents. Kids want to be everything - change minds every day or several times a day. Let them get on with it. Surely decisions like that are for when kids can make educated informed decisions?? This worlds gone fucking crazy. I fear for my kids future. I really do.

It’s not unusual for a child to want what their sibling has/is doing, especially if the sibling has praise.

@NursePye

Jesus wept this is depressing. My 15 yr old DD was a tomboy par excellence. Never wanted princess dresses (or any dresses), nothing pink, has played football since she could walk, begged the teacher to be a shepherd instead of an angel in reception nativity and throughout primary all her close friends were boys. She now never wears skirts or dresses, doesn't wear any make up and still loves football. She's often said that she won't go to the prom because she couldn't bear dressing up like the other girls.

She's never once had any confusion about the fact that she is a girl growing into a woman.

Interestingly enough many of her contemporaries are now coming out as non-binary and these are exclusively the girls who grew up loving the princess dresses etc, having the pamper parties aged 7 etc etc.

Thankfully she finds this whole trend baffling and is quite aware of the importance of biology. As she said to me "shame I can't identify out of my horrendous periods isn't it!".

Worryingly she has told me that among her friends there is a desire to have had some trauma in your background as a sort of badge of honour. Apparently it is just not fashionable to have had a fairly stable upbringing or to have good self esteem.

Wonder when all this will end ...

The bit about trauma is disturbingly accurate, unfortunately.

There is no logical reason why 50% of young children would be happier in a skirt or dress than trousers and that those children would also prefer to have long hair rather than short. It makes as much sense to expect those options will be embraced by female children as it would those children born January-June rather than July-December

I was a tomboy, not into pink or princesses or anything like that, but I felt I was a girl. Gender identity is not the same thing as gender stereotypes - that's why some trans girls are tomboys.

Ok, so for you gender identity is something internal and deeply felt? And it's different from gender stereotypes like pink dresses and hair clips (to re-use my previous examples)? I think we also agree on that - liking particular toys or styles of clothing doesn't make a child a boy or a girl.

What I can't see in this article is anything beyond stereotyping. The parents say that their child must be a trans boy because she likes fire engines and doesn't want pigtails. But that's no different from many many children who don't have a deeply felt sense of gender identity (I'm one of them).

The article does say that Stormy says they are a boy. But four year olds don't have a sense of gender permanence - if you show them a doll with short hair and trousers they say it is a boy; give the same doll a handbag and the same child will say it is now a girl. So how can we distinguish at age 4 between a girl who wants to wear / play with (stereotypically) 'boy' things and a trans boy? I don't think we can?

I completely agree with allowing Stormy to play with whatever toys she likes; wear the clothes and hairstyles that she likes; and potentially use the name that she likes. However, I would stop short of telling her (and her whole social network) that she is actually a boy. That's partly because there is every chance she will grow up to be happy as a not-very-'girly' girl. But also because if she does want to transition when she is older, it is better to have that conversation when she is old enough to understand the realities of transition (medication, side-effects, genital operations, likely infertility etc). If her parents socially transition her now, at age 4, she is likely to believe that she is literally a (cis) boy who will grow up to be a (cis) man. She will then have a huge, unpleasant shock when she realises that without medication she will go through a female puberty and that all the medication and operations in the world won't make her body the same as a (cis) boy's.

If you were depriving your child of the recommended treatment for a recognised medical condition, you're damned right I would report you to social services.

Is Shiz suggesting that trans is a medical condition? Like diabetes, cancer or obesity that might have preventive measures or is it more like an infection (bacterial?) or is it a genetic disorder like sickle cell? Or an injurious medical condition like a concussion?** Not sure.

The trans people I know are not comfortable being labeled as having a medical condition. It may be offensive (see bold below).

(Defined as: A disease, illness or injury; any physiologic, mental or psychological condition or disorder (e.g., orthopaedic; visual, speech or hearing impairments; cerebral palsy; epilepsy; muscular dystrophy; multiple sclerosis; cancer; coronary artery disease; diabetes; mental retardation; emotional or mental illness; specific learning disabilities; HIV disease; TB; drug addiction; alcoholism). A biological or psychological state which is within the range of normal human variation is not a medical condition

Medical condition is a phrase used in documents for physicians applying to licensing agencies (e.g., state medical boards, malpractice insurance carriers, third-party payers, etc.), which is used to determine a physician’s physical “suitability” to practise medicine.)

What is wrong with being a female firefighter?

And hugely exacerbated by social media, especially other's experiences receiving attention and praise, and specific group identities, where their trauma centres as a personality trait.

@TableFlowerss

I bet they like the attention it gives them to make them feel like super cool lo parents *sigh* bet they’re turned vegan recently too 🙄 course that little girl won’t be messed up.......

Can I ask why some people are comparing this scenario to being vegan as if being a vegan is somehow abusive?

@NursePye A Troll!!! How clever! I absolutely love that! One DD at 11 dressed up as a Zombie Robin Hood for Halloween. Kids are awesomely interesting!

When my sisters and I grew up in Scandinavia in the 70’es, we wanted to be pirates and be able to lift a horse. -just like Pippi Longstocking.

The parents enforcing the rigid gender stereotypes of today, are entirely overlooking how the things they believe to be markers of the nebulous concept of “gender identity”, are situated in time and place.

Would our ambitions have marked us out as girls or boys?

Astrid Lindgreen’s books must be discombobulating to the ‘woke’.

@Fallingirl we read Pippi! Grew up with Norwegian parents and loved their sensible approach to kid clothing - corduroys and wool sweaters(jumpers). White socks or brown socks, and unisex brown and navy leather shoes.

We all looked something like this:

The headline should really have been:

"Parents of 4-year-old twins lose their marbles"

@ImprobablePuffin I believe people think it's the epitome of weird.
I decided I wanted to stop eating meat at six. My family all ate meat but my mum let me.
The difference between this and a trans kid is being vegetarian had no negative impact on my life or health apart from people making stupid comments.
Making fun of vegans is a national pastime. I've been the butt of jokes for 30+ years now.
Mmmm bacon.

@HelpMeRhondaYeah

I imagine it would feel pretty unsafe to a toddler, to be asked regularly by their parents whether they're a boy or a girl. Parents are supposed to know stuff at that age, especially important stuff like the sex of their child.

Absolutely. The total lack of common sense in these parents is shocking. And it can only be destructive to the child's wellbeing.

I'm old enough to remember s time when obsessing about gender identity wasn't common. Sure, there are people who have felt from the off that they are in the wrong body, that's a different issue altogether. Now, there are parents/teachers/media outlets/pressure groups etc etc TELLING children, inc very small ones, this. Making it some kind of badge of honour for themselves, the parents. All because they have very traditional views of gender. ("If my daughter doesn't want pigtails, she'd be happier identifying as male." etc)

It's perfectly possible to be articulate, to read lots of articles etc, and to be completely lacking in common sense.

I asked my 7 1/2 year old daughter if she was a girl or a boy. She said she was a girl. I asked her how she knew. She said, 'Because you told me.'

"He was assigned female at birth"

@LawnFever

How has this backwards, sexist way of thinking become something that some people see as progressive, it’s ridiculous.

So we can’t have female firefighters, police officers and everyone has to wear pigtails now? It’s just bizarre and damaging.

How is it seen as progressive? Tribalism. I'm convinced that many on the left see the stupidity of all this but aren't willing to be cast out of the intersectionality tent to get pissed on by all the other alphabeties who used to be their friends. Be honest, most people posting here would still be in the tent pissing out on the none progressives if it wasn't for the fact that you strongly disagree with most progressives on Gender activism.

My daughter spent a lot of time being a cat at that age...