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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transman Prinz Chiyo Gomes splits gay community: gay man accused of hate

311 replies

Shedbuilder · 30/03/2021 10:11

Prinz Chiyo is a transman who entered (and I'm told won, but can't confirm) the Mr Gay England competition last year:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-53936529

Chiyo has talked publicly about Chiyo's experience of sexual abuse from an early ago. Chiyo is also an icon among young girls who want to escape the burden of femininity and is celebrated on BBC's Newsbeat.

A gay man who tweets as Sheridan Sinclair recently wrote an article about Chiyo and why he objected to a someone who talks openly about their vagina and the fact they menstruate qualifying to compete in Mr Gay England. This has set off a Twitterstorm. Sheridan Sinclair has been forced to close his Twitter account and take down his article.

twitter.com/mrgayengland/status/1376101627959074821

Before he was shut down, Sheridan Sinclair pointed out that many gay men have spent large parts of their lives being told there's something wrong with them, that they should learn to love 'pussy', and that having Chiyo compete in Mr Gay England is homophobic.

Sheridan Sinclair has been reported to the police for hate crime and is expecting a visit from the rozzers this morning. Fair Cop, I hope he's been in touch with you.

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 10/01/2022 18:04
vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 10/01/2022 18:06

We also don't try to convince by emotion or force of character - if we can offer evidence we will.

Add to that - wit.

About 20 minutes after David Lammy called us dinosaurs my social media was full of dinosaur avatars.

There was a protest outside the Lancet because they described women as "bodies with vaginas". The women turned up in those blow up dinosaur suits. Hilarious.

By way of contrast, the gender enthusiasts seem to have no ability to self deprecate at all. No humour. No fun. It's a serious business, navel gazing.

GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 18:07

@titchy

I love this thread!

Young woman posts, gets arse handed to her, meekly apologises and promises to do better.

Instead of accepting her apology and making her run round the playing field 20 times as punishment MN says 'No! Don't apologise. Be yourself, have your own thoughts and stand up for what is important to you, not anyone else.'

@GeorgiaPass stay! Join in and maybe see if any of your friends are up for a robust debate here too?!

Hi again Titchy!

I’m sure they would love it - you might not get the apologies though! Smile

Thanks also for not making me run around the playing field that would not end well!

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 10/01/2022 18:08

Uh oh.

That's it, @GeorgiaPass. Once you make the joke you are one of us...

Welcome.

teawamutu · 10/01/2022 18:09

@GeorgiaPass whether the women here are right or wrong, this sums up (for me) where we're coming from:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4373885-I-wrote-a-poem

CuriousaboutSamphire · 10/01/2022 18:13

I've just bumped that thread. I missed it the first time round.

GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 18:14

Hi,
Thanks for your response and that is why I have tried to use varying language in my comments as I don’t know who is here and so would not want to exclude on purpose.

That makes total sense to me and thank you because I think my original comment was now perhaps too passionate (I still love Chiyo and think he is wonderful) but I should have backed up my other comments I will have a delve around my resources and see what might be best.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 10/01/2022 18:14

As an aside, @GeorgiaPass. I hope your friend, Prinz is doing well and is happy.

There will be hoards of people on here who all hope for the same.

GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 18:16

I adore this thank you for showing me 🥰

GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 18:18

Thank you very much! He is well he is currently off on a tour right now and I can’t say I’m not a bit jealous! Yes I agree and I’m sure that’s the case 😀

GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 18:19

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

Uh oh.

That's it, @GeorgiaPass. Once you make the joke you are one of us...

Welcome.

One of us, one of us...
RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 10/01/2022 18:21

@OhHolyJesus

I will do better

No need for that, just be yourself. I sense you don't get much of a chance to truly do this elsewhere. Maybe I'm wrong, I hope I am, otherwise the constant devotion to "do better, be better" must be exhausting.

Relax, be yourself. That will do just fine.

Also seconding or thirding, or whatever it is, this.

It’s heartbreaking to think young women like you have been indoctrinated in this belief system that tells you you’re wrong in so many ways. And then tells you that this is feminism!!!

We got indoctrinated with all kinds of bullshit too, and a crucial part of feminism is unpicking the toxic, misogynistic messages you received as a girl/young woman and reclaiming your own intrinsic worth, your own humanity. They used to call it consciousness raising back in the 70’s/80’s.

But the people or forces giving us those messages then were more readily identifiable as the “enemy”: as the forces of oppressive conservatism, sexist men, docile, male-prioritising women, big business, etc. We were the vanguard fighting against that. We were progress. There was a kind of clarity to it. The boss who tried to feel you up was clearly one of Them and the woman friends you got drunk and went on rallies and demo’s with were clearly part of Us.

Now though… the old reactionary forces of woman-blaming, of misogyny, of making female rights and needs subordinate to male desires - those forces are all dressed up as progress now. They tell you they’re the Us you should want to be part of, even while shitting on you and treating you as badly as some men have always treated women, behaving totally like Them.

I think it must be so hard for young women to see clearly with all the gaslighting, all the reversals, all the appeals to your female socialisation dressed up as appeals to your desire to be a Good Human Being. And the pressure on you to be pure! It really is like a religious cult. It seems like you’re guilty by default of Original Sin and have to wash yourself clean in the waters of self abnegation. Constantly checking your privilege and your thinking, to head off any spark of defiance. It must be exhausting.

What you said here, We can be led to feel that our misunderstanding or understanding whichever way you want to look at it is incorrect sometimes, made me think of the activities of the Red Guard - the youth movement during China’s cultural revolution. Which again was the forces of oppression and inhumanity dressed up as “progress”.

I hope you find something better than that here, or if not here, then elsewhere. Because you certainly deserve better than being a handmaiden for a misogynistic male rights movement that would see you sublimate yourself, and your own (and other women’s) needs, to benefit people who already have more power than you.

Datun · 10/01/2022 18:36

GeorgiaPass

When you specifically respond to someone's comment, use the quote function, so people know who you're replying to.

It's the three little dots on the bottom right of the box you're writing in.

If it's greyed out, it means you're trying to quote a comment that is already quoting someone else. You can't do that for some reason.

GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 18:40

@Datun

GeorgiaPass

When you specifically respond to someone's comment, use the quote function, so people know who you're replying to.

It's the three little dots on the bottom right of the box you're writing in.

If it's greyed out, it means you're trying to quote a comment that is already quoting someone else. You can't do that for some reason.

Thanks!

I just keep making that mistake I’ll get it Smile

CuriousaboutSamphire · 10/01/2022 18:41

Or, if you want to just write their name in bold put an asterisk before and after it, a short version will be fine. No spaces though

So Datun

Without the spaces becomes Datun

CuriousaboutSamphire · 10/01/2022 18:41

Or any other text!!

GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 18:47

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Or any other text!!
thank you!

X

CuriousaboutSamphire · 10/01/2022 18:49

Seems like you worked it out!

Datun · 10/01/2022 18:53

And putting ^ either side of the text puts it into italics.

For ranting and emphasis purposes!

Scraggythang · 10/01/2022 18:53

Well, this has been an interesting thread to catch up on. @GeorgiaPass so many of us came here, many name changes ago, with the intention to try and encourage ‘kindness’ and stayed after having our eyes opened. Smile

GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 18:56

@Scraggythang

Well, this has been an interesting thread to catch up on. *@GeorgiaPass* so many of us came here, many name changes ago, with the intention to try and encourage ‘kindness’ and stayed after having our eyes opened. Smile
Sounds good to me!
CuntAmongstThePigeons · 10/01/2022 19:23

Bloody hell!!!!! This went way better than expected. Nice one Georgia, you actually stuck around to engage with everyone. So often people drop in, insult us, patronise us, tell us to be kind and then fuck off and never come back.

You have engaged magnificently. You are obviously actually interested in conversation which is a breath of fresh air.

I will add that almost EVERY woman on this board started out where you are. I did for sure. It was reading TRA's cries of "educate yourself" not to me to be clear I was fully signed up TWAW, but to others that meant that I went away and "educated myself."

That was 6 years ago and honestly as someone upthread said, (probably Datun) I could honestly write a thesis on it. Our opinions have risen from ENDLESS reading, lots of scientific journals, etc. This place is a hub of intelligent, educated women. Even if they are dinosaurs.

Finally, I know how difficult it is when the people you're closest too are fully immersed in this ideology. Genuinely. We probably run in the same circles, many of my friends are trans, and I've actually seen your friend Prinz perform. He was spectacular! But if they're real friends you should be able to discuss this with them. Years ago a close drag queen friend of mine brought up the potential misogyny in (some) drag acts. He brought it up, not me, but what followed was a wonderful, civilised conversation around that. Real friends listen.

FlibbertyGiblets · 10/01/2022 19:24

Oh this IS nice, welcome Georgia, you will be fine here.

picklemewalnuts · 10/01/2022 19:43

This has been a kind of one thread summary of my life on Mumsnet! Arrive a bit green, got shocked by plain speaking unapologetic women, learned a load of stuff, became a plain speaking unapologetic woman some of the time!

I still get taken aback by flat disagreement, and statements that haven't been softened with qualifiers. Grin

chilling19 · 10/01/2022 19:49

Great response to Georgia, vipers. Georgia, hope you stick around.