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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transman Prinz Chiyo Gomes splits gay community: gay man accused of hate

311 replies

Shedbuilder · 30/03/2021 10:11

Prinz Chiyo is a transman who entered (and I'm told won, but can't confirm) the Mr Gay England competition last year:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-53936529

Chiyo has talked publicly about Chiyo's experience of sexual abuse from an early ago. Chiyo is also an icon among young girls who want to escape the burden of femininity and is celebrated on BBC's Newsbeat.

A gay man who tweets as Sheridan Sinclair recently wrote an article about Chiyo and why he objected to a someone who talks openly about their vagina and the fact they menstruate qualifying to compete in Mr Gay England. This has set off a Twitterstorm. Sheridan Sinclair has been forced to close his Twitter account and take down his article.

twitter.com/mrgayengland/status/1376101627959074821

Before he was shut down, Sheridan Sinclair pointed out that many gay men have spent large parts of their lives being told there's something wrong with them, that they should learn to love 'pussy', and that having Chiyo compete in Mr Gay England is homophobic.

Sheridan Sinclair has been reported to the police for hate crime and is expecting a visit from the rozzers this morning. Fair Cop, I hope he's been in touch with you.

OP posts:
RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 10/01/2022 15:49

I would give up most things in life if it meant something to someone else but I appreciate that's the easiest thing in the world to say sometimes

Yeah, I found that depressing too. Pure, age old, traditional female socialisation. “Put others first. It’s selfish and unfeminine to think of yourself. The needs of male people are more important than your own.”

GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 15:50

Thanks again I have now had a read and she is very profound and her points are much clearer reading them from her own pen (who'd have thought?)

I appreciate you finding that for me

Sophoclesthefox · 10/01/2022 15:51

Fair play to you for sticking around, Georgia, normal protocol in these situations is to call us all hateful and flounce back to Twitter, so all credit to you for the staying power Grin

GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 15:51

Yep I'm trying to change that a bit more - to still be open to others but to set more boundaries

littlbrowndog · 10/01/2022 15:52

Just be yourself. You don’t need an identity. Just have a personality

I was assigned angry at birth 🤣

But I deffo do not agree with the assigning at birth nonsense. No assigners were present when I gave birth

GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 15:52

I don't think anyone is hateful this has been a lesson for me and I appreciate those who have discussed with me today

(I do have Twitter but you'll mainly just find photos of my dog there!)

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 10/01/2022 15:52

So Georgia it seems to me you’re saying that you judged what JK Rowling said purely on the basis of what other people said she said, without actually reading her own words yourself?

Glad you’ve had a rethink, anyway.

titchy · 10/01/2022 15:52

@GeorgiaPass

Thanks and I love that statement

I am trying to be more like that

Just a point as you're new - unlike many SM threads this one doesn't automatically put your response directly under another post, but lists them chronologically, so usually when responding to a particular poster, or specific paragraph/sentence, we either copy in bold what we're responding to, or use the quote function as I have here.

Just makes things a bit clearer!

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 10/01/2022 15:53

@GeorgiaPass

I don't think anyone is hateful this has been a lesson for me and I appreciate those who have discussed with me today

(I do have Twitter but you'll mainly just find photos of my dog there!)

💜🤍💚
GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 15:53

Assigned angry!!

I think I was assigned confused to be honest it would make sense!

Well I hope my personality holds up to something at least

Datun · 10/01/2022 15:55

@GeorgiaPass

Hi Datun,

I understand your response absolutely and thank you for sharing I appreciate hearing from others.

My views were not to express this however, I am fully aware of the threats to women (I am assigned female at birth) and so, your explanations are correct of course, whether they should be is another issue because it's awful isn't it?

If you disagree with my use of the 'be kind' statement I apologise, just because I am speaking to women at the moment and therefore it does have connotations of the issues you have outlined - I wonder if you would view this differently were I talking to a different group that included men and non binary or gender non conforming people? I used the statement purely for the words themselves asking people to be understanding of the people at both sides of the original story. So I apologise again for any offence caused and want to say that I would never want to lift one group up by bringing down another

Thanks again

Hi Georgia

I'm not quite sure what you're saying? Are you asking me that I believe you should be telling other people to be kind? And in which case, asking for kindness is a good thing? And therefore it's hypocritical for me to object to it when you ask it of us?

Because the two opposing 'factions' in this situation are not symmetrical, not in the slightest.

A concept that does not acknowledge biological sex will disadvantage women, way more than men. Women are oppressed on the basis of their sex. Therefore being unable to acknowledge their sex matters far more to them than it does to men.

Just take the prison issue as an example.

Male rapists are being given access to incarcerated women as part of their sentence. The flip side of that exact situation is that the female inmates, 60% of whom will already have suffered domestic violence, are being forced into cells with male sex offenders, as part of their sentence.

Unsurprisingly the prison service do not allow women who identify as men to be housed in a male prison.

I'll leave it to you to decide why.

Men commit 98% of all sex offences. They commit 90% of violent offences. In fact almost all crimes are overwhelmingly committed by men.

There is no symmetry.

Women aren't even asking for kindness from men, frankly it's gone way beyond that. They are asking for basic humanity. Not to force women who have already been subject to violence at the hands of men, into prison cells with rapists.

Not to force women who have been raped and sexually abused by men, into pretending that their male counsellor is female, or else.

If you can't see sex, or if you think it's somehow assigned on the basis of feelings, you won't be able to see, articulate, or fight against, sexism.

Or in these cases, such rank misogyny that it's breathtaking.

Have you actually read everything that J. K. Rowling has said on this issue? Because she completely supports trans people and has trans friends. She just thinks that sex matters, too.

She says

I want to be very clear here: I know transition will be a solution for some gender dysphoric people, although I’m also aware through extensive research that studies have consistently shown that between 60-90% of gender dysphoric teens will grow out of their dysphoria. Again and again I’ve been told to ‘just meet some trans people.’ I have: in addition to a few younger people, who were all adorable, I happen to know a self-described transsexual woman who’s older than I am and wonderful. Although she’s open about her past as a gay man, I’ve always found it hard to think of her as anything other than a woman, and I believe (and certainly hope) she’s completely happy to have transitioned. Being older, though, she went through a long and rigorous process of evaluation, psychotherapy and staged transformation. The current explosion of trans activism is urging a removal of almost all the robust systems through which candidates for sex reassignment were once required to pass. A man who intends to have no surgery and take no hormones may now secure himself a Gender Recognition Certificate and be a woman in the sight of the law. Many people aren’t aware of this.

We’re living through the most misogynistic period I’ve experienced. Back in the 80s, I imagined that my future daughters, should I have any, would have it far better than I ever did, but between the backlash against feminism and a porn-saturated online culture, I believe things have got significantly worse for girls. Never have I seen women denigrated and dehumanised to the extent they are now. From the leader of the free world’s long history of sexual assault accusations and his proud boast of ‘grabbing them by the pussy’, to the incel (‘involuntarily celibate’) movement that rages against women who won’t give them sex, to the trans activists who declare that TERFs need punching and re-educating, men across the political spectrum seem to agree: women are asking for trouble. Everywhere, women are being told to shut up and sit down, or else.

I would urge you to read what she has actually written, in her own words. This item was written after she received threat after threat after threat. Together with being spammed with pornography on her Twitter line during her attempt to launch a children's painting competition.

www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 15:56

@RoaringtoLangClegintheDark

So Georgia it seems to me you’re saying that you judged what JK Rowling said purely on the basis of what other people said she said, without actually reading her own words yourself?

Glad you’ve had a rethink, anyway.

Well my opinion was formed from a number of sources but yes today was my first read of that and my initial comment was in response to someone - this wasn't supposed to be about JK Rowling or anyone else
Datun · 10/01/2022 16:01

Oh, I see we've moved on, sorry!

It's good to see people having a think, tho Georgia. Always good, that 😁

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 10/01/2022 16:01

Well my opinion was formed from a number of sources but yes today was my first read of that

Well hopefully this shows you the value of going straight to the original source rather than believing what other people say about someone else. Even multiple second hand sources - if they’re all misrepresenting her, because they share a common ideological aim, then you’re never going to find out what she really said.

GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 16:01

Hi Datun,

I apologise I was never questioning what you feel objective to - you have your reasons for all feelings which you do not need to explain to me.

I have just read this and believe it to be a very profound and clear explanation, I appreciate it being shared with me today.

In terms of your comments regarding the prison statistics, this is something I will have to explore further as I don't see myself as capable to comment right now

Thank you

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 10/01/2022 16:01

Don't worry. Threads here tend to wander. And we do like to bring in all relevant information rather than discuss something shorn of any context.

@Shedbuilder would have anticipated a derail or three Smile

HaroldMeeker · 10/01/2022 16:02

You need to get your info straight from the source, not other people's spin on what the source said. Otherwise you're just a mouthpiece for someone else's opinions. Think! Think for your blasted self! Read the original reports, the original statements, the original studies. Ffs. This is basic critical thinking. What the hell is being taught in schools these days??????

GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 16:02

Yes I totally appreciate that, I think this is something most of us can be guilty of sometimes and things can get muddled.

I will do better

Whatsnewpussyhat · 10/01/2022 16:03

I am assigned female at birth

Nothing was assigned or assumed.
You simply ARE female whether you like it or not, the same as the rest of us.
Whatever you choose to call yourself.
There is no third sex or other option.

What exactly is it other than rejecting sex role stereotypes that you think makes you something other, and why should this bear ANY relevance to legislation or policy?

Why should the rest of us be forced to have to pretend that simply saying you are something somehow makes you that thing?

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 10/01/2022 16:03

A concept that does not acknowledge biological sex will disadvantage women, way more than men. Women are oppressed on the basis of their sex. Therefore being unable to acknowledge their sex matters far more to them than it does to men.

This cannot be repeated too often. It’s one of the fundamental truths at the root of all this, and one of the realities that transactivism tries to obscure with its talk of “trans people” and “cis people”, as if that rendered the axis of oppression on the basis of sex null and void.

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 10/01/2022 16:06

What the hell is being taught in schools these days??????

So much toxic shite from the gender ideologues.

It seems to me young people are literally being taught that to think, to question, is itself hateful. Like what happens under the worst authoritarian regimes.

GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 16:06

Yes I usually do - it's just when there has already been discussion it's easy to get caught up

GeorgiaPass · 10/01/2022 16:07

Not forcing anything on anyone - this is my explanation of my identity if people don't want to see me as that then it's up to them

OhHolyJesus · 10/01/2022 16:08

You came to defend what you considered to be an unfair attack of some kind (I'm guessing) of your friend. That makes you a good friend.

You stayed and engaged, read some links posted and took comments in board. That makes you a good listener and someone who is posting in good faith, which is unlike many many others who come across this board and tell women to be quiet.

Ok, you gave us a telling off, but your textbook language there was probably inspired from, again, I'm guessing, the people who you surround yourself with, online or in person, who could also be the sources telling you how bad JK Rowling is, and your took on their opinions as your own as you trust them and their thinking. Maybe you even look up to them and want to align yourself with them so to bud friendships.

You have said you would do anything to help someone (or pretty much anything). This is a concept women here largely reject as it comes from female socialisation and you have also said you are female so I am also guessing that you have been socialised into this way and may not have realised where your opinions come from, or why you have to be kind, or why you behave in a certain way to please others.

Stick around. I think you might like it here. Check out the talk guidelines though so to avoid deletions. Twitter is is not but there are still rules, and I'm one of many who don't like the nature of the guidelines and coerced speech so I do the linguistic gymnastics so to avoid deletions and retain access but it doesn't sit comfortably with me, believe me.

HaroldMeeker · 10/01/2022 16:08

When multiple sources are misinforming you, and you know they are because you've taken the trouble to read, listen, watch the original source material yourself....the best step is to ask yourself WHY they misinformed you. What are their motivations? What's in it for them? What are the consequences for you, and for others? Question. Question, Question and question some more.

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