I had the most awful row with my teenagers yesterday

[JensonsAcolyte]

Both totally TWAW adherents.

DS is 18, his girlfriend is Non Binary and goes by a made up name (male Greek god). I am polite and go along with pronouns and use their chosen name.

For some reason Eddie Izzard came up at dinner time and I ‘misgendered’ them. DS really started laying into me about my bigotry so I played him the clip of Eddie saying Eddie has boy mode and girl mode and uses both sets of pronouns (I've tied myself in knots there as I don’t want to be deleted).

It came out in the conversation that DS believes, absolutely and 100%, that Izzard has changed sex. Actually changed sex. And that if DH came down for breakfast this morning and announced he was now a woman then DS would absolutely 100% believe that he had changed sex overnight.

DD was chiming in at this point and said that actually she would like to go by she/they as sometimes she identifies as ‘less female’. I was a bit irate by this point and I’m afraid I said that is navel gazing bollocks (oops).

Anyway it all got a bit shouty, and then DS dropped in that ‘some lesbians have genital preferences, and ultimately that’s transphobic but nobody’s trying to force anyone to have sex with anyone’ and I lost my shit a bit. I’d hoped this nonsense was confined to Twitter tbh and I hadn’t really seen it in the wild.

I told him he was a privileged, woke little shit. That lesbians my age have spent their entire lives having to justify their sexuality, being told they just haven’t met the right man, not to mention the sexual assaults and corrective rapes. And now are being told they are BIGOTS for not including penis. I was really angry. He then turned round and said the reason his girlfriend (and yes he calls them his girlfriend which is a whole nother eye roll) doesn’t like coming here is because I’m well known for being a Terf and she feels unsafe.

I’ve basically left it as saying I don’t adhere to your religion but that doesn’t make me hateful or phobic, we had a bit more of an argument where he tried to say it’s not a religion but actually I think I made that point quite clear. I don’t believe in God but that doesn’t mean I hate Christians, I don’t believe people can change sex but that doesn’t make me Transphobic.

I’ve woken up this morning and I just still feel sick about it all. He called me some dreadful things, bigot, hateful, dangerous. I said some things I regret, particularly about the arrant nonsense that is non binary, I’m usually a lot more measured than that to avoid offence but I was just so angry.

Is anyone else having this with their teens? I could do with a bit of solidarity, advice maybe or just a hand hold.

Hand hold. Hand hold. Hand hold

No, but my kids know my thoughts so we just don’t go there.

Another hand hold.

So sorry that you're going through this. Hopefully someone with more experience will come along soon.

Ah I feel for you

What an awful situation

I think maybe you should avoid this sort of topic at home if your children are willing to die on that hill

Thank you. We usually just avoid the whole topic but for some reason it bubbled up.

Oh another gem; #superstraight is a Neo Nazi recruitment tool. Said with a totally straight face and with conviction.

Interestingly DH was involved in the conversation and didn’t get anywhere near the abuse I got. He said he would be ‘superstraight’ as he’d never want to sleep with a man, and in his opinion TWAM and the kids both said well that’s up to you and went back to shouting at me.

Middle aged women are the problem apparently. Oh and there were a lot of comments about how us ‘oldies’ just don’t understand. I’m forty fucking one.

I don't have experience of parenting teens, but I wonder if having a calmer conversation where you both apologise for name calling and promise to try to have more respectful conversations going forward would be an idea? I think it would be a real shame if this becomes an elephant in the room and no more discussion had because it creates a chasm between you where it's possible for opinions to become more and more polar opposite, people become resistant to the idea of changing their minds or if someone's mind changes, they feel too proud to admit it.

I think the internet (and I include my own exposure to the internet in this) has made it easy to become really entrenched in ones own views to the point that it becomes difficult to hear other people. We need more centrism. More nuanced and collaborative discussion.

I heard a saying recently: "You don't have the monopoly on being right" and I think it's really important to remember that when modelling how to have a robust discussion...

I get why you were so furious though if men are allowed to be super straight but lesbians aren’t allowed to be super gay

That would send my blood boiling too

To be fair, it sounds like that was an enraging discussion!

Oh love. I never, ever discuss this with my teen DD for this reason.

Hand hold from me. I don't go there with my youngest DD, who's 23, since a big row about JKR. I'd love to sit down with her and have a rational discussion, but the TWAW ideologues, by definition, don't do rational. It's all shouting and flouncing.

Hand holding from here. I think that you were incredibly restrainted. If my teenagers shouted at and insulted me,I don't know what I'd do. At the very least,they'd find out that I was losing the shackles expected of mothers and that there would be no more washing,cooking, cleaning or hospitality. Its 'gendered' oppression and I'm sure that they'd want no part of that.

I think more or less all of us with teenagers will feel this sort of attitude from them in the present climate. It really really hurts, big handhold from me too.

Did you ask them to explain exactly how trans people change sex?
The biological reality of how they go from XY to XX overnight (as that is what they said) - is there a very powerful Trans fairy that visits and changes chromosomes?
Or do chromosomes, gametes and genitals just not matter....

I think you both went too far, both with insults and the things you said. It sounds like you both have extreme views. Hope you can both apologise.

God. I'm expecting my first so don't have any experience but this came up on Active threads and I just want to hand hold. I'm petrified of the kind of world and views I'm bringing a girl into 😟

I think you're brave for even going there. I have a great relationship with my daughter but avoid this topic.

Actually DH was great in this conversation because he played devils advocate and asked questions. And of course there are no answers from the kids side. Just mantras and dogma. And the more he asked questions the more they doubled down.

He said afterwards that there’s no substance to the argument, that’s why they have to shout loudly about it.

Hit post too soon, sorry. Meant to say - and this was the important bit - your DD and DS will remember what a great mum you are and this will ultimately trump their need to spout the official line. Hugs though, it must have been awful.

Clown world.

No matter what the argument is about teenager will always be right. You were never a Teenager so cannot possibly understand their viewpoint.
Handhold

@Skyliner001 - could you expand on what the OPs “extreme views” are please?

To the pp who said you don't have the monopoly on being right.. sometimes you do. Its raining outside right now. That is a fact. The water that comes out of my tap is wet - fact. I am 5ft10. Fact.
Men and women cannot change sex. Fact.

I suggest if the subject ever comes up again, you say "I'm not discussing this with you, discuss it with your father".

On this topic, grey rock.