This never happens - man jailed for rape and attempted rape in women’s toilets

[IDanielRadcliffe]

news.sky.com/story/former-bristol-city-footballer-who-targeted-women-in-nightclubs-jailed-for-rape-offences-12248824

“He has on two separate occasions subjected women to violent acts in what should be a safe and private space.”

Some TRAs will see this and say, 'You see? You have women's toilets and men still attack you anyway. Hah! Gotcha!' I like to call this the 'people will commit murders anyway, so let's legalise guns' argument.

They will just say this shows that if a man wants to attack a woman he can and he doesn't need to identify as a woman to do so.

Glad he's been caught and sentenced though.

Cross post with Esma.

Yes the old 'look ladies, you're gonna get raped anyway, so we might as well get rid of any safeguards that are in place, and create huge loopholes which make it easier for men to gain access to your spaces' argument.

It's a bit like saying that because occasionally people slip through the DBS check net, we might as well just do away with them altogether. It's such a crap argument, I can't believe it still gets rolled out so frequently!

@EsmaCannonball

Some TRAs will see this and say, 'You see? You have women's toilets and men still attack you anyway. Hah! Gotcha!' I like to call this the 'people will commit murders anyway, so let's legalise guns' argument.

Ugh that's so true, and sad

@Doyoumind

They will just say this shows that if a man wants to attack a woman he can and he doesn't need to identify as a woman to do so.

Glad he's been caught and sentenced though.

It’s a deflection though, because the objection is to male people, regardless of their gender identity. Because both men and transwomen have sexually assaulted females in women’s facilities.

A rape in the ladies will be more easy to prosecute than one in mixed facilities as it's clear that a man has no place in the ladies

I can’t remember anyone ever saying ‘this never happens’ about predatory males attacking women in toilets? Because it happens. Some of us know this only too well. Thank God they caught him - 10 years is at the higher end of jail terms at least. No doubt Sisters Uncut will be campaigning for his release though along with everyone else in prisons. But again, you’re barking up the wrong tree if you’re lumping this under ‘this never happens’.

Vote I meant it in the spirit of the ‘This will never happen’ threads - as in if Self ID became legislation. I didn’t explain that though

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

@midgedude

A rape in the ladies will be more easy to prosecute than one in mixed facilities as it's clear that a man has no place in the ladies

Yes, and a rape in the ladies will be easier to prevent than one in a mixed loo, because a man seen entering the ladies can be challenged by a bystander and reported to management before he commits the rape. Unless you work or study at any of several UK unis, where new trans policies prohibit you from challenging someone who appears to be in the wrong loo

@EsmaCannonball

Some TRAs will see this and say, 'You see? You have women's toilets and men still attack you anyway. Hah! Gotcha!' I like to call this the 'people will commit murders anyway, so let's legalise guns' argument.

If you are equating guns with penises, I've got to tell you that penises are already legal.

Legal yes, ..but like guns, you can’t discharge them in a public place..

First class response

But...it was a man, not a trans woman. The argument that Self ID will lead to men doing this doesn't make sense, because they don't need to self ID to be able to attack a women in the toilets.

How do we know this person wasn't identifying as a woman when they/she/he went into the toilet? Have we assumed their gender?

@MolyHolyGuacamole

But...it was a man, not a trans woman. The argument that Self ID will lead to men doing this doesn't make sense, because they don't need to self ID to be able to attack a women in the toilets.

Of course it makes sense as it normalises men being in the women's toilet and changing facilities and as you can't tell which one is a man expressing his internal female gender identity without changing anything external from one not doing so you are expecting women to run the gauntlet every single time.

Men don't need self id to attack women in toilets and changing rooms but it makes it a hell of a lot easier.

@Shizuku

So are guns in some circumstances. But we have limits on where you can take them, and where they can be used.

@MolyHolyGuacamole - what a ridiculous thing to say.

Yes a man can walk straight into a woman's toilet but they are taking a big risk as they are obviously a man so they may get challenged. A trans woman on the other hand is generally dressed is a woman's clothing i.e a skirt or dress and has makeup etc. I know some of them sport beards but let's park that one for now. They are therefore less likely to get noticed and therefore challenged entering the toilet.

Make no mistake there are plenty of men out there who will self id to access women's spaces. Anyone who denies has no respect and understanding of women.

[quote 2021Vision]@MolyHolyGuacamole - what a ridiculous thing to say.

Yes a man can walk straight into a woman's toilet but they are taking a big risk as they are obviously a man so they may get challenged. A trans woman on the other hand is generally dressed is a woman's clothing i.e a skirt or dress and has makeup etc. I know some of them sport beards but let's park that one for now. They are therefore less likely to get noticed and therefore challenged entering the toilet.

Make no mistake there are plenty of men out there who will self id to access women's spaces. Anyone who denies has no respect and understanding of women.[/quote]
Your last comment is pure speculation. Unless you are psychic, you cannot know this.

As to the other stuff, as I said before, this wasn't a trans woman attacking another woman in the toilets, this was a man. So again, using the argument that men attack women in toilets as a reason to bar trans women from accessing those same toilets makes no sense. Because let's be honest, that's what this is about. That what it's always about on MN. It's about trans women and your dislike of them.

What toilet should trans men and butch women use? Why is it easier for cis men to pretend to be trans women than trans men?

So far, it is only the most brazen of men who go into women's spaces to attack. Lowering the 'hesitation' bar for men in general by making toilets mixed sex will only increase sex crimes against women.

Why do those in favour of opening up all female single sex places to males always come out with this butch women nonsense? My non stereotypical looking female friend (I won't describe her as butch because I think that is fucking insulting) has always without fail used female toilets and changing rooms as she is FEMALE and has never, ever had any issues doing so.

Let's think really, really hard here outed why would a man who isn't a TW want to access female spaces? What would make it easier for him to do so? Ah, yes self id, no need for any external or physical changes whatsoever, just utter the magic words if anyone so much as looks surprised.

Remove the boundaries, remove even the most basic and rudimentary levels of safeguarding but still blame women if they are raped or assaulted or excuse the men doing it with the trope of well, men will rape and attack you anyway, suck it up - weapons grade misogyny.

Single sex spaces are not just for safety they are also for privacy, comfort and dignity but of course women are even worthy of that.

Single sex spaces are not just for safety they are also for privacy, comfort and dignity but of course women are even worthy of that.

Should read:

Single sex spaces are not just for safety they are also for privacy, comfort and dignity but of course women are NOT even worthy of that.

Molly, this has already happened, there is a case currently in court where a trans woman sexually assaulted a woman. From Fairplay for Women:

"When it comes to sex crimes we see this very high male-type conviction pattern in the transgender prison population too. This means that despite identifying as women the male-born transgender prisoners retain their propensity for male-type crimes."

Another example is trans women saying they have a right to access women's refuges.

Men do and will use self id to access women's spaces. Trans women are welcome to fight to their rights but not whilst stepping all over mine, telling me what I can and can't say and denying my biological sex. You are right, I really don't like people who that - who would?!

Spot on. I absolutely love cock. Don't want it rammed down my throat though.