What's it really like for girls when one of their classmates is trans? A short film.

[Shizuku]

a trans girl isn't male, but she just feels that she is a girl rather than a boy - it's not a case of toys or particular games or clothes

How do you 'feel' like a girl? We're back to this definition again aren't we.

Having a gender identity that doesn't match the sex she was assigned at birth

But if the person is not male (as you said) and they don't have a male "gender identity" how are they trans?

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Because nobody expects such threads there and most wouldn't post there in the same way as they post here.

The language of the OP was very goady, nothing to do with support. Much more 'spiky' than this version. Lots of cis this and offensive that!

It's a support space for parents with trans kids. Not an FWR free for all.

Plus I don't know why I saw it, I have all of the children threads hidden. There is some speculation it was moved there after we started posting on it.

I didn't post it there, I posted it here. MNHQ moved it.

Well, a trans girl isn't male, but she just feels that she is a girl rather than a boy

So it’s back to feelings again and the circular argument. When I have to clean my car I feel like a man.

Having a gender identity that doesn't match the sex she was assigned at birth.

What is a gender identity? What is a 'girl gender identity'? What is a 'boy gender identity'? How does one measure gender identity? What would be the criteria for knowing that a male child has a girl gender identity, what sort of boxes would need to be ticked?

Not a blatant lie at all. I didn’t say that you said it, I said TRAs say it. I’m presuming you don’t think you speak for ALL TRAs?

I can only go what I hear when people ask what makes someone trans and 9/10 times it’s down to clothes and hair and makeup etc . The other 1/10 is usually some fluffy ‘essence’ or other that can’t quite be pinned down.

That's exactly what I thought Coffee

I understand that MN is allowing leeway here, but this poster seems to be a tad Teflon!

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Having a gender identity that doesn't match the sex she was assigned at birth

But if the person is not male (as you said) and they don't have a male "gender identity" how are they trans?

They have a female gender identity, but were assigned male at birth.

They have a female gender identity, but were assigned male at birth.

So biologically male then. Good, glad we cleared that one up.

There is no concrete scientific evidence that gender identity is biologically provable. And any studies I have seen (eg. About brain scans etc) always have the disclaimer that some trans people don't fit into whichever theory is being tested, thereby rendering the study kind of pointless.

But the problem with a 'biologically innate' model is that it doesn't support self id, which is obviously kind of.... awkward.

They have a female gender identity, but were assigned male at birth

So they are male then, that's what I thought. I think you must have a typo in your 1833 post

@MarkRuffaloCrumble

Not a blatant lie at all. I didn’t say that you said it, I said TRAs say it. I’m presuming you don’t think you speak for ALL TRAs?

I can only go what I hear when people ask what makes someone trans and 9/10 times it’s down to clothes and hair and makeup etc . The other 1/10 is usually some fluffy ‘essence’ or other that can’t quite be pinned down.

You're not listening - almost all trans people will happily tell you that gender identity and gendered behaviour are 2 different things. People like Katy Montgomerie and Paris Lees say it over and over again. Go find them on Twitter. ask the yourself.

By including the trans child who are you excluding? Different religious and cultural backgrounds will not allow their daughters to share dressing/toileting space with male bodies. Others will be made to feel unsafe at a male body in their previously female only spaces due to violence, rape and abuse they have experienced.

So they get all the upheaval, upset, discomfort and loss of dignity you are so keen to avoid for the trans girl, but get none of your sympathy- did you even consider them or work out how everyone's needs can be accommodated?

But the transgirl hasn't .

@Juliesipadwillcallyouback

There is no concrete scientific evidence that gender identity is biologically provable. And any studies I have seen (eg. About brain scans etc) always have the disclaimer that some trans people don't fit into whichever theory is being tested, thereby rendering the study kind of pointless.

But the problem with a 'biologically innate' model is that it doesn't support self id, which is obviously kind of.... awkward.

That's not the scientific consensus:

www.endocrine.org/advocacy/position-statements/transgender-health

People like Katy Montgomerie and Paris Lees say it over and over again.

Interestingly they are the exact two people I was referring upthread to who said that their parents didn't allow them to wear dresses and play with dolls as kids.

If a transgirl is not male what are they transitioning from exactly?

And this is what happens when you give an inch.

‘Woman’ has become meaningless so now they’re going for ‘female’ too.

Oops wrong pic Here's the correct quote from the Endocrine Society:

They may say it over and over and over and over again

It doesn’t make it real

It doesn’t make it something I need to believe

You have today reinforced my beliefs that all transgenderism boils down to is an even more rigid fixation over social perceptions of what girls and boys can do. It’s crap sexism.

I am so fed up of people judging what my DC can do on the basis of their sex

Stop limiting them

Sorry board moving too fast
Transgirl hasn't gone through puberty.

Again, what is a 'female' gender identity and how do you know the internal gender identity of someone who has no first hand experience of being female, corresponds to the feelings a female person has about their sexed body?

I think Bunbury would have wise words about this thread.

So?

Anyone with an ounce of common sense will point out how behaviour both forms and reflects beliefs.

You can't have a gender identity without knowing, choosing, preferring, 'identifying with' actions, behaviours, things associated with gender stereotypes.

Put simply until you see a giraffe you don't know what they are!

@Juliesipadwillcallyouback

People like Katy Montgomerie and Paris Lees say it over and over again.

Interestingly they are the exact two people I was referring upthread to who said that their parents didn't allow them to wear dresses and play with dolls as kids.

You mean they had gender stereotypes imposed on them rather than just being allowed to play with whatever they liked - you know, like the tomboy trans girls.