What's it really like for girls when one of their classmates is trans? A short film.

[Shizuku]

When she does, it will be an estrogen puberty

I'd genuinely believe to hear more about this. If a child takes puberty blockers and then cross sex hormones do they then go through puberty? (Brain changes etc)

Jeez the YouTube comments to that video! 😨

And where is the detrans boy video, where is the detrans girl and her friends?

Start listening to detrans stories.

Stop pretending there aren't hundreds and thousands of young people out there who are dropping out of their trans identities and coming to terms with their authentic selves - while facing huge opposition from the TRA lobby.

Great job OP! We need more like you on MN.

@HermitsLife

Jeez the YouTube comments to that video! 😨

I hadn't noticed them!

Definitely some people there could do with their hard drives being searched.

OP why do you seem, on the surface, in favour of children being allowed to dress how they want, play with whatever toys they want, etc. but then seem so against it when the child enters puberty? All of a sudden you want them on cross sex hormones. Why? Why not continue to be accepting of children/teenagers behaving in non stereotypical ways. Why does it matter so much to you that they medicate themselves for the rest of their lives?

@StopSearching

OP why do you seem, on the surface, in favour of children being allowed to dress how they want, play with whatever toys they want, etc. but then seem so against it when the child enters puberty? All of a sudden you want them on cross sex hormones. Why? Why not continue to be accepting of children/teenagers behaving in non stereotypical ways. Why does it matter so much to you that they medicate themselves for the rest of their lives?

Placemarking, in case there's any considered / coherent response to this not holding my breath, mind

What stuck me is sad about that film is the young trans girl doesn’t really understand how it will effect her future romantic relationships. She seems to think heterosexual boys will be open minded enough to see passed her differences.
I also felt sorry for the girls made to change with someone they regarded as male until very recently and couldn’t object.

What is a female gender identity?

Thank you OP for engaging in the discussion in a more civil manner than the previous thread.

I do actually feel very sorry for Paris Lees, that must have been a difficult childhood and no wonder she hated being forced to do things she didn't enjoy.

Could you comment on a previous poster's point about Muslim girls? They cannot have male bodied children in their spaces. This is about sex, not gender. Muslim girls already find it very hard to engage in wider society due to religious pressure. What would you say is the solution here? Trans girls cannot be accommodated here in the girls' facilities alongside Muslim girls.

I am happy to accept that trans girls shouldn't be made to change with boys, I can understand that would be distressing. Just as I appreciate trans women shouldn't be housed in the male estate. But the answer, as with prisons, cannot be to accommodate them with girls to the disadvantage of these girls.

I am very clearly not in any way implying that trans girls are monsters or any other hyperbole you wish to throw. I accept they can't change with boys but equally, they can't be with girls. That is a space for females, hormones are irrelevant here, it is about sexed bodies and the right to separate sexed spaces. I don't understand why you feel girls have no right to that even if some in the video you posted are ostensibly accepting of it. There others that cannot and will not be and their rights matter too.

I’m not sure why wearing dresses and playing with Barbie dolls defines your gender. I find it offensive that to be a woman you have to do and wear woman things.
I spent my teens in jeans and T-shirt’s and on my bike or dissecting whatever the cat brought home.
I wear dresses in the summer as an adult because they a far cooler when the weather is hot. I have no problem with men who wish to do the same, but to claim they are the definition of feeling like a woman is bollocks.
What makes me feel like a woman is the complex interaction of my female hormones with my female body and brain. This complex interaction allows me to give birth and breastfeed, it instils in me a less aggressive and more tolerant nature and many more subtle qualities that only the XX chromosomes allow. I don’t actually feel like a woman because as a woman I have no other experience. I don’t know how it feels to be anything else.
Playing with f**king dolls and wearing dresses did not make me a woman.

Does anyone else think it’s a bit creepy that they film her in a bathing suit while talking about her body?

I refer to the brain in a physiological way in that my female hormones produce feedback mechanisms that drive my menstrual cycle.

It’s doesn’t just affect children though does it what about the young children who have to share bathroom facilities with older trans people of the opposite sex? My dd goes to a club that is held
In a facility with male and female toilets. She used the toilet and found herself in there with a trans woman and it made her feel really uncomfortable. Teenage girls should not have to share facilities with adult men, regardless of how they identify.

Do you propose she should just suck it up? Perhaps if she had been indoctrinated in to your believe system at 3 or 7 she wouldn’t have had the bottle to raise her concerns to me. Do you think a 13 year old girl needs re “educating” to believe that men in her personal space is ok? Because I think that’s verging on child abuse and that’s where all this nonsense leads isn’t it, girls being conditioned not to complain; girls and women having to share themselves, their spaces and their language with men. Children do not stay children, your video doesn’t just affect children.

Gender identity doesn’t exist if people are allowed to be themselves. Every trans person I ever heard or read about has said some variation of “I knew I was really a woman when in preferred playing with dolls than tractors” their parents have not allowed them to be themselves, a male who likes dolls, a girl who likes fire engines and wants to be an astronaut or a kid who plays with that ever they fancy at that time then this situation wouldn’t exist.

@adviceseekingnamechanger

Thank you OP for engaging in the discussion in a more civil manner than the previous thread.

I do actually feel very sorry for Paris Lees, that must have been a difficult childhood and no wonder she hated being forced to do things she didn't enjoy.

Could you comment on a previous poster's point about Muslim girls? They cannot have male bodied children in their spaces. This is about sex, not gender. Muslim girls already find it very hard to engage in wider society due to religious pressure. What would you say is the solution here? Trans girls cannot be accommodated here in the girls' facilities alongside Muslim girls.

I am happy to accept that trans girls shouldn't be made to change with boys, I can understand that would be distressing. Just as I appreciate trans women shouldn't be housed in the male estate. But the answer, as with prisons, cannot be to accommodate them with girls to the disadvantage of these girls.

I am very clearly not in any way implying that trans girls are monsters or any other hyperbole you wish to throw. I accept they can't change with boys but equally, they can't be with girls. That is a space for females, hormones are irrelevant here, it is about sexed bodies and the right to separate sexed spaces. I don't understand why you feel girls have no right to that even if some in the video you posted are ostensibly accepting of it. There others that cannot and will not be and their rights matter too.

This! Great post!

“telling a child that they can ‘change sex’ is wrong”

No it isn’t.

“Telling children that another child has ‘changed sex’ is wrong“.

Again no.

This section is absolutely vile. The transphobic nature of so many of the posts is appalling. Given how accepting of difference the younger generation of women tend to be, this focus & hate directed at trans women to the point of mania is not going to attract young women to feminism. Which will be all our loss.

Good luck OP, you’re on a lost cause with this lot!

@CardinalLolzy

Having a gender identity that doesn't match the sex she was assigned at birth.

So can you set out clearly which gender identity matches with which sex?
Otherwise it's a bit like saying they have a fruit that doesn't match their vegetable - what are the paired sets of gender identity and sex?
Surely you're not saying a feminine gender identity matches a female sex and a masculine gender identity matches a male sex?

Or are you saying gender identity and sex are the same thing?

Would be great if you could answer this, OP, as clearly other people (not just me!) don't understand what you mean by the terms you use - and I'm assuming you're posting here to reach some sort of mutual understanding or explain some knowledge you think we don't have, in which case you're not going to get very far without defining specifically what you mean when you talk about gender identities having corresponding sexes.

@SJaneS49

“telling a child that they can ‘change sex’ is wrong”

No it isn’t.

“Telling children that another child has ‘changed sex’ is wrong“.

Again no.

This section is absolutely vile. The transphobic nature of so many of the posts is appalling. Given how accepting of difference the younger generation of women tend to be, this focus & hate directed at trans women to the point of mania is not going to attract young women to feminism. Which will be all our loss.

Good luck OP, you’re on a lost cause with this lot!

Can you explain how these statements are wrong? I'm not trying to be goady. I genuinely want to know how a person could change their physical sex.

@SJaneS49

“telling a child that they can ‘change sex’ is wrong”

No it isn’t.

“Telling children that another child has ‘changed sex’ is wrong“.

Again no.

This section is absolutely vile. The transphobic nature of so many of the posts is appalling. Given how accepting of difference the younger generation of women tend to be, this focus & hate directed at trans women to the point of mania is not going to attract young women to feminism. Which will be all our loss.

Good luck OP, you’re on a lost cause with this lot!

A child cannot change sex. It is a basic fact and very sad for a child that has been told they can change sex.

Reality is not transphobic.

@SJaneS49

“telling a child that they can ‘change sex’ is wrong”

No it isn’t.

“Telling children that another child has ‘changed sex’ is wrong“.

Again no.

This section is absolutely vile. The transphobic nature of so many of the posts is appalling. Given how accepting of difference the younger generation of women tend to be, this focus & hate directed at trans women to the point of mania is not going to attract young women to feminism. Which will be all our loss.

Good luck OP, you’re on a lost cause with this lot!

Then please, for gods sake, show us the bloody evidence that humans can change sex.

The we can all shut the fuck up and go home!

@SJaneS49

“telling a child that they can ‘change sex’ is wrong”

No it isn’t.

“Telling children that another child has ‘changed sex’ is wrong“.

Again no.

This section is absolutely vile. The transphobic nature of so many of the posts is appalling. Given how accepting of difference the younger generation of women tend to be, this focus & hate directed at trans women to the point of mania is not going to attract young women to feminism. Which will be all our loss.

Good luck OP, you’re on a lost cause with this lot!

Clearly we are all talking about different things when we say "sex" and "gender", then. Again, defining what you mean clearly and specifically will help us all understand why it is wrong to say someone can't change sex.

@SJaneS49

“telling a child that they can ‘change sex’ is wrong”

No it isn’t.

“Telling children that another child has ‘changed sex’ is wrong“.

Again no.

This section is absolutely vile. The transphobic nature of so many of the posts is appalling. Given how accepting of difference the younger generation of women tend to be, this focus & hate directed at trans women to the point of mania is not going to attract young women to feminism. Which will be all our loss.

Good luck OP, you’re on a lost cause with this lot!

Could you expand here please, as you haven't actually put forward any sort of argument in that post?

Mysterious isn't it? What are all the thousands of doctors and scientists, millions of trans people, and billions of people who don't happen to be trans (if only there was a word for that) talking about?

I asked 5 fairly clear questions in my post and you didn't reply to any of them? I don't know what you mean by the above?

I'm not actually bothered how children of either sex get on as friends. My children have friends of both sexes and I see that as a good thing.

I do, however, draw the line at allowing them to share sleepovers or private spaces with members of the opposite sex for obvious reasons. I don't care how a child identifies, putting teenagers in private spaces together is a bad move and I will not allow it at all.

Having been young once I remember how the boys were with the girls so we have to be the adults in the room and set the boundaries for children to stick to. I am happy if a male child who doesn't feel comfortable using facilities for other boys (for whatever reason) has alternative provision made for them as long as that provision doesn't involve being put in with the girls.

It is not acceptable.

@teawamutu

I think Bunbury would have wise words about this thread.

Yeah good point. It’s tricky though isn’t it, to just let these things stand unchallenged!