A new definition of female, brought to you by twitter.

[PotholeParadies]

A female academic has posed this question

Please explain to me how a fully transitioned trans woman, who has breasts and a vagina, has orgasms and experiences the sex act in the same way my body does, should be forced to put male, not female, on the census, just because that is on her birth certificate.

Jane Clare Jones has already been on the case, but I thought we might also enjoy taking that apart.

Can you not identify as a French speaker on the census, Terry? I'm sure it usually asks about languages spoken.

experiences the sex act in the same way my body does

Feeling rather bad for this woman and what she has inadvertently revealed about her sex life! SRS recipients most certainly don't experience "the sex act" in the same way MY body does. Vaginas are muscle all the way up...

@PotholeParadies

Can you not identify as a French speaker on the census, Terry? I'm sure it usually asks about languages spoken.

@PotholeParadies

midge you're using words to mean things again.

Someone has told her that post-SRS, results are indistinguishable, and that is what she will stick with.

Indistinguishable

Sorry but whether they like or not it’s obvious...

Oh, no. It's completely off the table concurrently. One of her friends has had a horrendous, agonizing time healing from hers, so any idea of even entertaining it has completely poofed away as a result of that.

Oh dear god. I have read some horrendous stories relating to these surgeries and the creation of functional (?) penises. I would be incredibly concerned for the quality of life any person having these operations would have.

I don't recall Fern ever being GC.

I see she was quoting this from Shon Faye. Ok, Shon.

"I completed my census today and I ticked female on it. My womanhood can’t be taken away by a fundamentalist movement - all trans people will fill out our sex as we see it. We won’t comply with the lies we’ve been told our whole lives. We are who we are."

twitter.com/shonfaye/status/1369407970363269128?s=20

@allmywhat

experiences the sex act in the same way my body does

Feeling rather bad for this woman and what she has inadvertently revealed about her sex life! SRS recipients most certainly don't experience "the sex act" in the same way MY body does. Vaginas are muscle all the way up...

I was just thinking the same thing. There's no way that can be recreated.

Aside from the fact that males can only dream of having something as amazing as a clitoris, I don't like the idea for her women's value is based on how fuckable we are.

Also these transpeople who insist on lying in the census only harm all transpeople, are they too dumb to see that? Or do they just not care? One suspects the latter

Men can have orgasms being penetrated anally

Does that suddenly make them women?

Odd question, but, as far as I know there is no muscle activity in a Neo vagina. Happy to be told I am wrong here, but if this is the case, then isn't it disingenuous to say that sex is experienced in same way?

notyourhandmaid

But that's just it, it's really is a game of luck. Her first friend to have it done, the surgeon did a marvellous job. It's weird to describe somebody's genitals as beautiful, but it truly is a work of art. If she were to change beside you in a public bathroom, unless you were looking creepily close, you would never guess.

The second friend to have it done, I won't go into details but it isn't pretty. If you told me the surgeon was drunk while doing it, I wouldn't despute it, it was very upsetting to see not only the physical result but how difficult the healing process has been. It's been a year and is still not 'functional' or pain free. So yes, we're stearing well clear from any and all conversations regarding bottom surgery for now.

"Enjoy ur erasure" Shon is filling out data gathering documents to say Shon is female and identifies as a woman?

So as far as anyone will know from the census, Shon was born female and never had to do any fighting for trans rights or anything? Shon is literally covering up the existence of trans people?

Okay. Well, if you want to erase yourself...

I just don't understand how someone can be a historian and believe in this stuff. I know she's not the only one, too.

Which sex act would a male person with a prostate and a surgically created opening where the penis used to be, experience in the same way as a woman with her vulva, clitoris and vagina?
Answer: None.

"Vagina" is my first thought when seeing that tweet.

If she says transwomen enjoy sex the same as she does....is she talking about bottom sex? (Not sure if I am allowed to be more specific)

Oh for heavens sake. When they say it's biology 101, they're really not kidding.

This shows a clitoris. It's not an inverted penis. And it has twice the number of nerve endings as a penis even before any SRS.

A vagina facilities menstruation, conception and birth. Although I realise that appears to be news to people who view it purely in terms of penetrative sex.

@Pudmyboy

If she says transwomen enjoy sex the same as she does....is she talking about bottom sex? (Not sure if I am allowed to be more specific)

Anal?

Eteri that is terribly sad. I do worry with more particularly very young people are being encouraged towards a medicalised route as if that will solve all their problems.

Hang on a minute.

I'm sure that on the feminism board we all know off the modern issue of men who pressure naïve young women into anal sex with lines like "all my ex-girlfriends loved it and said it was better than anything else", etc, etc.

Under Fern's reasoning, should it be concluded that women who do enjoy anal sex are actually male?

There's a response and a half.

It's impossible for a female person to experience anal sex in the same way as a male person, due to the lack of prostate or an organic penis.

Hmm...
twitter.com/FernRiddell/status/1156866529851518977

Course it is. But that's also the same kind of impossible as in the first tweet, so...

Oh... my... gawd... Champagne. Oh... my... gawd...

organic penis

There’s something just completely Mumsnet about that phrase ought it to be free range, too?

The first thing I think of when I think about how to define being a woman isn’t how I have sex. Weird take.

And yes, congratulations on literally erasing yourself, Shon. Brilliant. Future generations will wonder how in the 2020s so much was made of people being trans, when according to the stats, they didn’t appear to exist...