Posie Parker Zoom

[AdHominemNonSequitur]

Posie Parker has been warned by Zoom that her account may be suspended for promoting hate. Now she can sometimes go a bit far, but as far as I am aware all she does is deny TWAW, which is still supported by UK and probably US law. Are they going to ban the UK government when it debates trans rights too. This is absolutely terrifying over reach. Can anyone still be in denial about the deeply illiberal nature of this shit show. What have we let happen under our noses. What are we still letting happen? What is wrong with people? Why can't they see?

I think the criteria for adoption should be mental health, not whether someone is trans or not. One does not necessarily equal the other. Although I agree we get strange/mixed messages from TRAs at times. But it's best left to actual professionals. I don't support a blanket ban.

A discussion of Posie did or did not say on MN has derailed this thread, which is about her potentially being banned on Zoom.

True enough. Whilst not in any way minimising what she has said in the past, and how it may have made people feel, this is a few years later and a different platform we are talking about. Without the specifics of what caused her ban on Zoom, this all seems to be a bit of a pointless, spiralling discussion.

Oh right.
So let me get this straight.
So far I've had DARVO thrown at me
I need to do more reading of posts
You can't believe I don't understand sarcasm (what because I'm reading what is actually on posts? Not between some secret line?)
You and others can try and gaslight all you like.
I know what's on the thread.
Regardless of being told it's not really there, and I'm reading it wrong.

I need to do more reading of posts

Yes. Because, as you explained when you outlined the process through which you got to your interpretation, you were "assuming" that there had been some case of a TRA in a toilet with a gun.

you were "assuming" that there had been some case of a TRA in a toilet with a gun

No - I just asked was that the case, because if it wasn't it sounds awfully like people are just mass generalising about trans people being bad in toilets.

Like I said above, it's like that one time that trans rights activist sent that one death threat.

All the other trans activists rushed to condemn it and backed away from it, fearing what was under the facade. The whole movement collapsed, on account of that one bad exchange. It was such a pity for trans people, nobody ever listened to their concerns ever again. They all packed up and went home, and never did gain any rights.

Have other people in the public eye been banned on Zoom? If so, on what grounds?

"Well why wouldn't [women] feel comfortable with people that self-ID into the women's toilets? I don't think there could be a risk with self-ID?"

" [Transwomen] haven't been proven to be dangerous in women's toilets, so I think it's a lot of fuss about nothing. Actually, [transwomen] have been in women's toilets for years and you just don't notice it. I mean, who can tell?"

Here, Mockolate up above ^. Does that help?

" [Transwomen] haven't been proven to be dangerous in women's toilets, so I think it's a lot of fuss about nothing. Actually, [transwomen] have been in women's toilets for years and you just don't notice it. I mean, who can tell?"

What have trans women actually done wrong though?
Apart from being in a toilet you don't want them to go in?
It's not comparable to men going in from the offset with guns.

Like I said above, it's like that one time that trans rights activist sent that one death threat.

All the other trans activists rushed to condemn it and backed away from it, fearing what was under the facade. The whole movement collapsed, on account of that one bad exchange. It was such a pity for trans people, nobody ever listened to their concerns ever again. They all packed up and went home, and never did gain any rights.

Oh yes, I remember that time so well.

@Mockolate

" [Transwomen] haven't been proven to be dangerous in women's toilets, so I think it's a lot of fuss about nothing. Actually, [transwomen] have been in women's toilets for years and you just don't notice it. I mean, who can tell?"

What have trans women actually done wrong though?
Apart from being in a toilet you don't want them to go in?
It's not comparable to men going in from the offset with guns.

Well, a man with a gun hasn't done anything wrong either unless he uses it to threaten or injure someone.

I don't think anyone on this thread actually wants men with guns in women's toilets. But it illustrates that it's not a sound argument if you can't apply it to other scenarios too.

And there is evidence of transwomen harming females in the ladies toilets. It's not all of them, obviously. But it doesn't matter how many cases come to light, it is always deemed to be not enough of them to be relevant. Which is zero comfort to Katie Dolatowski's victim.

Focus on the offenders, not everyone who needs to go to a toilet. If someone does something inappropriate in the toilet, they get reported and arrested - be they "cis" or "trans".

Hell, I get a male cleaner in the toilet, but he always yells out first to check it is ok to enter.

As far as I am aware transwomen have been in the bathrooms for 30 + years or longer with no real issues other than isolated examples that like to be reported.

Hang the perp, not the grouping of people. The latter is true bigotry.

Butch lesbians are getting well pissed at being challenged in the bathrooms as they may "look trans" or male. And many trans women I see posted as super stealth. I wouldn't know who to challenge or not. Nor do I care, if they get on with it, and leave the seat clean.....

Well, a man with a gun hasn't done anything wrong either unless he uses it to threaten or injure someone.

Is it just me or is it or is it not used in this situation as a threat towards trans women?
Because if it's not - why would people want men with guns in the women's if it wasn't to scare off trans women and most women who aren't trans as well

If someone does something inappropriate in the toilet, they get reported and arrested - be they "c s " or "trans".

Exactly

@MishyJDI

Focus on the offenders, not everyone who needs to go to a toilet. If someone does something inappropriate in the toilet, they get reported and arrested - be they "cis" or "trans".

Hell, I get a male cleaner in the toilet, but he always yells out first to check it is ok to enter.

As far as I am aware transwomen have been in the bathrooms for 30 + years or longer with no real issues other than isolated examples that like to be reported.

Hang the perp, not the grouping of people. The latter is true bigotry.

Butch lesbians are getting well pissed at being challenged in the bathrooms as they may "look trans" or male. And many trans women I see posted as super stealth. I wouldn't know who to challenge or not. Nor do I care, if they get on with it, and leave the seat clean.....

You've just repeated the arguments that were parodied in the person with a gun post, in order to counter the post.

It's like being in an Escher painting.

You've just repeated the arguments that were parodied in the person with a gun post

Has the person who wrote it actually come back and said that when they said they don't see a problem with guns being in the toilet what they wrote isn't actually what they meant?
Or are we just assuming again?

@Mockolate

If someone does something inappropriate in the toilet, they get reported and arrested - be they "c s " or "trans".

Exactly

No. Not exactly. "Something inappropriate"? What would that be? We're not talking about putting the toilet tissue roll on the wrong way, are we?

Let's spell out the stakes without anodyne euphemism.

We mean sexual harassment. We mean sexual assault. We mean rape.

If that happens, is it really remedied by an arrest? Will the effects on the victim be remedied like that? Like cleaning a sticky mirror?

Katie Dolatowski's victim, who was ten years old, has been mentioned. She went to the toilet in the supermarket. Dolatowski has been arrested, but how confident do you think that child feels about using the toilet in public buildings now?

Here's another case. Five year old girl. School toilet. How do you think she feels about going to the toilet or even attending school?

allongeorgia.com/georgia-education-k12/did-a-georgia-school-districts-transgender-restroom-policy-lead-to-sexual-assault-of-girl/

I truly find this 'well, we'll arrest them afterwards' approach morally bankrupt and devoid of empathy.

If people are going to turn round and basically say actually what you're reading didn't mean that all, it was just a parody, it was a gotcha, or whatever.....
if people don't mean what they're writing (if indeed they didn't or if people are just saying they didn't) shouldn't it say on the post?
Otherwise it looks awfully like trying to get people to second guess and doubt themselves when it's clear what it actually says.
As in the actual words.

Something inappropriate"? What would that be? We're not talking about putting the toilet tissue roll on the wrong way, are we

Yes.
Yes, people putting the toilet roll on back to front.
That's what's being discussed here.
Really lol

Sunlight?
Ah yes

@Alltheprettyseahorses

Offhand, I can't think of a TRA with a gun in women's toilets but I've seen toilet selfies showing other weapons such as a sword or baseball bats.

Are you sure? Or have you just seen the photo of a trans woman who tweets a lot about her fencing hobby holding a fencing sword in a municipal looking area that could well be a fencing club?

@Zinco

With the men with guns suggestion...

Well why wouldn't trans-women feel comfortable with people that self-ID into the women's toilets? I don't think there could be a risk with self-ID?

Men with guns haven't been proven to be dangerous in women's toilets, so I think it's a lot of fuss about nothing. Actually, people have been carrying guns in women's toilets for years and you just don't notice it. And maybe some of them were men; I mean, who can tell?

Mockolate Are you seriously saying that you think the meaning of this post is unclear?

A discussion of Posie did or did not say on MN has derailed this thread, which is about her potentially being banned on Zoom.

I thought it was me! So no-one has said why?

I wonder if the increase in popularity of her merchandise, and it becoming a bit of a secret handshake thing amongst women, has anything to do with it.

@Mockolate

If someone does something inappropriate in the toilet, they get reported and arrested - be they "c s " or "trans".

Exactly

So TW can confidently use the correct services and spaces for their sex, then. Because if they are abused in any way, be that verbal or physical, the perpetrator can be reported and/or arrested.

Or have you just seen the photo of a trans woman who tweets a lot about her fencing hobby holding a fencing sword in a municipal looking area that could well be a fencing club?

That's interesting, so it's not actually definitely a toilet?
As I've seen on here a post like that a few times if that's the one that's really meant - see, this is where context would be good instead of just look at this picture, see what "they" do?