Staniland Question is so good. Can we think of others?

[aliasundercover]

The Staniland question:
Do you believe that male-sexed people have the right to undress and shower in a communal changing room with teenage girls?
is so clever. The fact that so many people refuse to engage with it - let alone answer it - means it's a quick, powerful, way of showing how ridiculous the TWAW position is.

Can we think of any others that would be as effective? Maybe we could come up with 5 or so really sharp questions that TRAs could refuse to answer. My first thoughts are something along the lines of:
Why is it racist to identify as another race but stunning and brave to identify as another sex?
I'm sure somebody can word that better.

So any suggestions? The questions need to be short and clear.

@Delphinium20

She was scared because of a MALE being in a place they are not supposed to be. She would not have had the same reaction to a physically deformed woman because a woman is entitled to be in a toilet no matter what she looks like.

I think a question to women should be, "at what age did you (and/or your daughter) start understanding that males could be a risk?"

How on earth would a ten year old be able to tell beyond doubt that the people in this picture are 'women'?

Anyway happy to leave this now, I didn't derail this thread more than anyone else, I just asked questions and replied to the responses same as you all did.

@aliasundercover

The usual person has successfully derailed this thread, as they have done so many times before.

Can we not just ignore them and get back to the original topic? I've loved so many of the suggested questions.

Well said, quite right.

Here's a question:

"Women saying 'no' to men. An end to the conversation, or an invitation to negotiate?"

Delphinium20

You might be interested in this thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3280690-Hostelling-Scotland-allows-men-to-self-ID-as-women-and-have-access-to-womens-dorms-and-shower-rooms?msgid=78735655#78735655

Honestly, while I do have sympathy for people with gender dysphoria, if a male-bodied person willingly chooses to remove their penis, I do rather feel it is up to them to accept the consequences of that action

agreed. While I know one young male person who suffers terribly with dysphoria, adults who in this person's life gently provide firm, but loving reminders to respect women and girls.

[quote 334bu]Delphinium20

You might be interested in this thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3280690-Hostelling-Scotland-allows-men-to-self-ID-as-women-and-have-access-to-womens-dorms-and-shower-rooms?msgid=78735655#78735655[/quote]
Thanks!!

@malloo

If all transwomen are women then are all women transwomen? If not, why not? Can any woman be a transwoman? If not, why not?

I find this a quicker way of getting to what the essential difference is.

@malloo

If all transwomen are women then are all women transwomen? If not, why not?

No, they are not. Because that's not how logic works. Set A being a subset of set B does not imply that set B is also a subset of set A.
Just change the words, eg
If all cats are mammals then are all mammals cats?
If all Italians are European then are all Europeans Italian?

Apologies if someone has already pointed this out.

Should families of 16 year old girls going on a school exchange trip be able to complain if their daughter has to share a room with a teenage male ,if said teenager identifies as a woman?

To get a GRC a person must declare that they will live in their intended gender for the rest of their life. If they later behave in a way incompatible with this pledge should the GRC be revoked.

I'm thinking of sexual abuse involving the penis and pregnancy as the obvious ones that demonstrate lying.

Should third spaces be provided for people who find it psychologically difficult to use spaces for the sex they were born as?

"What are the differences between men and women?"

*I remember being terrified using a toilet alone when I was quite young by a man with quite a severe facial disfigurement and some kind of mental health condition that made him act a bit inappropriately but not really in a threatening or even creepy way. I was still scared to go in toilets on my own for a while after. These things happen to kids I certainly don't think that means he should have been prevented from being in there."

That's not the same thing and all and you must know that.

If Eminem decided to change his race to black would it be racist to say he's not black?

DearFrutti
No, they are not. Because that's not how logic works. Set A being a subset of set B does not imply that set B is also a subset of set A.
Just change the words, eg
If all cats are mammals then are all mammals cats?
If all Italians are **European then are all Europeans Italian?

Apologies if someone has already pointed this out.

Yes I agree, you're right, I guess it's the second part of my question that's more relevant "Can any woman be a transwoman? If not, why not?" I was thinking in terms of Venn diagrams and how different types of the same thing sometimes intersect but other categories never do. Not very coherent though

@malloo

Oh yes, I do love asking Can any woman be a transwoman? or Can I be a transwoman?

No because... erm... and they just can't say the word man

@Barracker

"What are the differences between men and women?"

Mainly income, unpaid labour, and disparity of power. Guess they're not self-identifying into those bits eh?

A&E doctor presented with unconscious patient whose clothes have been removed

Are they male
Are they female
Are they something else

How would the medic decide ?

How does a female brain differ from a male brain from early childhood?

If there is such a thing as gender identity, is it present from birth, eay childhood, adolescence?

If one is trans, have they always been trans but in denial?

Is it possible to be born with a male brain but develop a female brain during middle age?

How does a man know he is woman, rather than just a man that thinks he is a woman ? Given that he has no physical attributes or external validation to confirm this

I have a question for anyone who knows about how these things work: when were crossdressers and transvestites included under the trans umbrella? And by whom? I consider them to be different to eg. Blaire white, but us that wrong for me to see a difference?

Also - how would a female "cross dress" as s male?

@Barracker

Part 1: Should 'transwomen' be allowed to distinguish themselves from members of the male sex, or should they be forced to share space unwillingly?

Part 2: Should women be allowed to?

That's a very good question.

Should gender clinics be expected to track medium and long term outcomes for their patients?

@Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud

I have a question for anyone who knows about how these things work: when were crossdressers and transvestites included under the trans umbrella? And by whom? I consider them to be different to eg. Blaire white, but us that wrong for me to see a difference?

Also - how would a female "cross dress" as s male?

This is a very common misconception. The term 'trans umbrella' was used by Stonewall several years ago to include all those who may face discrimination or hostility due to being gender variant or non-conforming in some way. It includes cross dressers as well as trans men, non binary people and lots of other different expressions of gender. It has never meant that everyone in this group is a trans women or that everyone in this group is seeking to access women's spaces and it is prefectly acceptable and quite normal to recognise the differences between the groups that fall under this heading.

As to your last question, maybe google drag kings.

Thank you JJ. Follow up question- if a transvestite wants to use a woman's bathroom should they? (They're not a transwomen by definition?)

If Elliott Page commited a crime should he be forced to go to a male prison?

@ListeningQuietly

A&E doctor presented with unconscious patient whose clothes have been removed

Are they male
Are they female
Are they something else

How would the medic decide ?

That's easy, primary and secondary sex characteristics so they might get it wrong is someone was fully medically transitioned but it's unlikely to matter too much in an initial examination in A&E.

a) Can a child at 12 make an informed decision about having sex at the present time?

b) can a child at 12 make an informed decision about having sex 10 years into their future?