Staniland Question is so good. Can we think of others?

[aliasundercover]

The Staniland question:
Do you believe that male-sexed people have the right to undress and shower in a communal changing room with teenage girls?
is so clever. The fact that so many people refuse to engage with it - let alone answer it - means it's a quick, powerful, way of showing how ridiculous the TWAW position is.

Can we think of any others that would be as effective? Maybe we could come up with 5 or so really sharp questions that TRAs could refuse to answer. My first thoughts are something along the lines of:
Why is it racist to identify as another race but stunning and brave to identify as another sex?
I'm sure somebody can word that better.

So any suggestions? The questions need to be short and clear.

Even if someone was medically transitioned I'm reasonably sure a doctor taking more than a cursory glance would be able to tell. A constructed 'vagina' isn't really like a vagina, and a constructed 'penis' is NOTHING like a real penis. And it matters a great deal if a patient is unconscious in A&E (given that they are unconscious and unable to impart this vital piece of information) and could be suffering from any number of specific disorders or diseases based on their sex surely?

@Nameitychangity

Even if someone was medically transitioned I'm reasonably sure a doctor taking more than a cursory glance would be able to tell. A constructed 'vagina' isn't really like a vagina, and a constructed 'penis' is NOTHING like a real penis. And it matters a great deal if a patient is unconscious in A&E (given that they are unconscious and unable to impart this vital piece of information) and could be suffering from any number of specific disorders or diseases based on their sex surely?

Somewhat thankfully doctors do not have the luxury of assuming they can always tell, or of pretending intersex people don't exist, or in this case assuming genital deformities/abnormalities/injuries do not exist. Thankfully sex is not that important in most medical situations although they could obviously do a scan if it was and there was any ambiguity - they still might not get a clear answer in the case of someone who was intersex though.

If a cross-dresser (who we've established is different to a trans-woman) wants to access a female only space is it transphobic to refuse them?

If Stonewall describes trans as this on their website right at this very moment:

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/faqs-and-glossary/glossary-terms#t

An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.

...then what do we call someone who claims crossdressing and umbrella was only mentioned by Stonewall “several years ago”?

And another question:

Why should legislation around women’s rights be changed when trans people, trans activists, and trans organisations like Stonewall can’t even agree amongst themselves about what they’re defining and trying to achieve?

I think anyone who exposed their genitals to a 4 year old in public toilets is a concern to be honest.
@jj1968 what if that person identified as a five year old? Is it OK then?

Why has stonewall dropped the term "transvestite"?

@titchy

If TWAW why are there no examples of any getting pregnant?

Monty Python exposed the absurdity of the concept decades ago.

Should women speakers addressing a Women's March audience be told not to talk about female health matters, because some people who identify as women don't have female bodies?

(is it synonymous with crossdresser?)

Ooops posted too late. Why are stonewall's definitions so wooly??!

Thankfully sex is not that important in most medical situations I'd say sex is important in all medical situations. Seeing as how heart attacks can present differently in men and women, and a man presenting with abdominal pain couldn't possibly be having an ectopic pregnancy, to name just two.

@wellthatsunusual

Thankfully sex is not that important in most medical situations I'd say sex is important in all medical situations. Seeing as how heart attacks can present differently in men and women, and a man presenting with abdominal pain couldn't possibly be having an ectopic pregnancy, to name just two.

Presumably if the patient can describe symptoms then they are conscious and the doctor could ask them.

And it's by no means certain that heart attack symptoms differ in women and men, more recent research suggests perhaps not: www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/news-from-the-bhf/news-archive/2019/august/no-difference-in-key-heart-attack-symptoms-between-men-and-women

Some days I don't feel very "womanly", am I a man?

Why is cultural appropriation (Adele wearing her hair in bantu knots) deemed unacceptable but gender appropriation (Eddie Izzard wearing lipstick and in "girl mode") deemed acceptable and brave?

www.wspa.com/news/ask-the-expert/how-heart-attack-symptoms-differ-in-men-and-women/

www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/heart-disease-differences-in-men-and-women

[quote 334bu]www.wspa.com/news/ask-the-expert/how-heart-attack-symptoms-differ-in-men-and-women/[/quote]
Well as I said new research suggests that may not be true, or at least much less significant than once thought, and so doctors would be wise not to make assumptions. But in emergency care with an unconscious patient their sex is unlikely to be very important and if it might be such as in the case of suspected pregnancy that is pretty easy to establish.

www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/medical/women-and-heart-disease

Sorry for individual posts. Can't seem to work out clipboard storage on this phone. Where is a nine year old when you need them?

Still seems to be considerable disparity in quality of care. Moral if the story seems to be if you want to survive a heart attack be a man

@334bu

Still seems to be considerable disparity in quality of care. Moral if the story seems to be if you want to survive a heart attack be a man

Indeed, and one of the reasons for that may be, as BHF point out, an incorrect assumption that men and women present with different symptoms. NICE guidelines state that men and women presenting with possible heart failure symptoms should be treated in the same way.

One thing that's highly likely is that the reason more women die of heart attacks is a function of gender not sex which is why it's so important not to overstate physical differences between the sexes to explain medical disparities - because it could be letting sexist assumptions and attitudes within healthcare provision off the hook.

Couldn't self identifying as the opposite gender be viewed as gender appropriation? If so, why is it supported whereas cultural appropriation is condemned? Both involve adopting aspects of another person's life without sharing their lived experience.

@wellthatsunusual

Thankfully sex is not that important in most medical situations I'd say sex is important in all medical situations. Seeing as how heart attacks can present differently in men and women, and a man presenting with abdominal pain couldn't possibly be having an ectopic pregnancy, to name just two.

I have actually challenged someone in real life with this and raised concerns about triage in emergency departments recorded a female person as male. If a female presents with right iliac fossa pain they have an ectopic pregnancy until proven otherwise, and should be triaged appropriately and have a beta HCG checked ASAP. A male does not need this. There is a risk a female who is triaged as “male” could be put at risk with delayed investigation and treatment. This has happened but was averted because someone was onto it because they knew the patient as a frequent presenter.

Thankfully sex is not that important in most medical situations

This is laughable nonsense.

[quote jj1968]This is quite interesting and relevent. The majority of people think it's okay for someone to use the toilets of the opposite sex if they really need to go:

The majority (56%) believe it is acceptable for a woman who badly needs to urinate and might otherwise wet themselves to use the men’s toilets. Only 29% disagree. The figures are almost the same if the situation were reversed and a man needed to go in the women’s toilets – 52% think this would be ok and 32% do not. In both scenarios, men and women are united in their views.

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/03/20/potty-parity-would-it-be-fairer-make-womens-toilet[/quote]
That article deals with one of your earlier points about who should lose space to construct "third space" facilities. You said that men would object to losing square footage. We wouldn't. Anyone who has been to any kind of theatre or concert knows that Ladies' toilets are usually woefully under provisioned in relation to need whereas there aren't capacity problems in the Gent's. Urinals are very efficient and can achieve a very fast throughput of people. Women's anatomy does not lend itself to such a fast turnover in the toilets.