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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bunbury’s Eighth- Sealion training for beginners

999 replies

SophocIestheFox · 13/02/2021 21:08

Old thread nearly full!

————————————-

The useful Bunbury Guide to Spotting Community Disruptors is constantly evolving.

The best research and advice is not to engage with community disruptors and trolls. As ever, if you suspect troll activity, report it to MNHQ.

Remember there are people out there who would like to silence us by fair means or foul.

This is a continuation of the Public Service Announcement thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3944572-Bunburys-guide-to-community-disruptors-part-5?pg=40

If and when you see threads plopped into FWR, especially a curious repeat of well worn topics, maybe check for poster history before engaging. AS is your friend.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads that are reproduced on Twitter or Facebook to foment controversy using screen shots & flagging to either MNHQ to have threads or posters deleted.. Sometimes, it’s used to approach commissioning editors with ideas for articles. It’s a tiresome tactic that we always have community disruptor posters who themselves post the comments that they then highlight elsewhere as purported evidence of racism, religious intolerance, anti-men sentiments, or transphobia.

Some helpful links can be found in the ‘Break it Down for me’ and ‘It never happens’ threads but in essence FermatsTheorem recommended “that in the absence of a block/hide poster button, I suggest the following strategy (given that you're talking to the lurkers).

Do not name check the sealion. Instead, respond to a depersonalised paraphrase:

"It is sometimes erroneously suggested that blah. Blah is wrong for the following reasons (short and pithy). If you need more information re. debunking blah, here's a link."

Then (this next step is important to combat derailment) go back up thread to the last useful contribution to the discussion, make sure you do name check that contributor, and pick up the discussion from that point.”

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Callixte · 20/02/2021 14:41

I confess, I reported it - probably before 07:00 UK time; I’m an hour ahead. I suggested that it be reviewed and potentially moved to the Politics board. However, the thread also didn't make sense and appeared to pose a context-free unanswerable question ( hello, please tell me anything and everything at all! ) and was clearly in bad faith given the Twitter context.

I understand and appreciate that MNHQ offers the Feminist Chat board for discussion of feminist topics, not as a board “for” feminists - but that post didn’t fit the criteria in any way. It wasn’t feminist, and it wasn’t an informed critique of or question about or engagement with feminism or any specific feminist theory, praxis, position, policy, text, view, or claim.

If the poster of that thread is now performing outrage on Twitter, let them. They're convincing no one with an open mind and any critical thinking skills. They should have posted a competent thread that met the criteria and rules for the site/board they selected if they genuinely wanted to have a discussion.

guinnessguzzler · 20/02/2021 15:11

Indeed. I believe the preferred approach irl is called grey rock.

NancyDrawed · 20/02/2021 15:16

Something that I read on that thread puzzled me.
The OP said something about levels of unemployment being higher in the trans population, yet we are repeatedly told that it is impossible to tell whether an individual is trans or not, unless they tell us themselves. Therefore, the alleged higher levels of unemployment in that group cannot be because thay are trans, but must be despite them being trans, surely?

BoreOfWhabylon · 20/02/2021 15:27

I just had a look at the Twitter.

It is pointless engaging.

Over on Site Stuff, cleverer posters than I are saying the MN tech problems today bear the hallmarks of a DDOS attack. If so, can't help wondering if this is a coincidence.

CranberriesChoccyAgain · 20/02/2021 16:00

Seemed disingenuous from the get-go. Wanted to definitely tell us that individual occurances did not substantiate a "trend". I assume they were referring to Karen White as not being enough to warrant excluding TW in female prisons. So it was trends they were interested in then? Fine. I asked if the twitter account I linked to was theirs, and after saying yes, followed that by saying they didn't want the thread to "be about" them, even though they were keen to give their name in the OP. But if trends were important, and they claimed to be posting in good faith, would it not be expected that we might want to know if this was true? And what better way to gauge someone's intentions than by looking at their past declarations? Like a pattern? Or a trend?

But oh no, there was feigned disappointment. I want to see your evidence but how dare you look at mine, etc.

Cwenthryth · 20/02/2021 16:04

Someone with immense grace is on the MNHQ Twitter today; they’ve posted this linking to the meltdown

twitter.com/mumsnettowers/status/1363153769081544710?s=21

Bunbury’s Eighth- Sealion training for beginners
BoreOfWhabylon · 20/02/2021 16:08

Justine says it's a DDOS attack. What's the betting it's related to recent visitors and their gamer mates?

Winesalot · 20/02/2021 16:08

@BoreOfWhabylon

I just had a look at the Twitter.

It is pointless engaging.

Over on Site Stuff, cleverer posters than I are saying the MN tech problems today bear the hallmarks of a DDOS attack. If so, can't help wondering if this is a coincidence.

This is from Justine on the site thread:

JustineMumsnet
Hi all, We've been suffering a DDOS attack since approx 11.30 this am. Our firewalls are most working but that does mean that you get the message 'checking your browser' message and that the app is out of action for now. Big apologies - we're obviously doing our best to resolve.

Winesalot · 20/02/2021 16:09

Well... obviously we both got through to that thread at the same time Bore! Grin

LemonViolet · 20/02/2021 16:10

@BoreOfWhabylon

Justine says it's a DDOS attack. What's the betting it's related to recent visitors and their gamer mates?
It is a massive coincidence, isn’t it.
NotTerfNorCis · 20/02/2021 16:10

Justine Roberts has said it was DDos attack.

twitter.com/Justine_Roberts/status/1363149996481257486?s=19

I can't find the words (within mumsnet guidelines) to express my contempt for these censorious ideologues.

CranberriesChoccyAgain · 20/02/2021 16:10

Anyone know wtf this is about? It's on the Twitter thread about this morning's antics.

Bunbury’s Eighth- Sealion training for beginners
BoreOfWhabylon · 20/02/2021 16:11

Great minds, wines, great minds Grin

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 20/02/2021 16:11

Its all bollocks cranberry

Just different levels of bollocks

Biscuitsanddoombar · 20/02/2021 16:11

I did wonder if it was! Must be fun over there on the right side of history Hmm

CranberriesChoccyAgain · 20/02/2021 16:12

@NotTerfNorCis

Justine Roberts has said it was DDos attack.

twitter.com/Justine_Roberts/status/1363149996481257486?s=19

I can't find the words (within mumsnet guidelines) to express my contempt for these censorious ideologues.

Yup, no silencing of women happening here. 🙄
CranberriesChoccyAgain · 20/02/2021 16:14

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

Its all bollocks cranberry

Just different levels of bollocks

Sounds a lot like darvo and projection.
InvisibleDragon · 20/02/2021 16:16

Two phrases spring to mind here:

  • reasons are for reasonable people
  • Eppur si muove

I am thinking of getting the second one on a t-shirt or something Hmm

Beamur · 20/02/2021 16:24

[quote Cwenthryth]Someone with immense grace is on the MNHQ Twitter today; they’ve posted this linking to the meltdown

twitter.com/mumsnettowers/status/1363153769081544710?s=21[/quote]
Nice work Mumsnet Flowers

BoreOfWhabylon · 20/02/2021 16:36

Our visitor is now haranguing Mumsnet Towers on that twitter thread

Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 20/02/2021 16:36

I thought it was a DDOS. We do seem to be monitored quite closely at the moment.

DeaconBoo · 20/02/2021 16:37

At a very basic level it looks like people used to 'discussion' on Twitter find it difficult or unacceptable to have to stick to forum guidelines on another site.

HermitsLife · 20/02/2021 16:39

Well thats interesting Bore

Biscuitsanddoombar · 20/02/2021 16:52

It must be very confusing for them Deacon - twitter would automatically be on their side and deleting women right left & centre. How annoying for them that over here pesky women are allowed to have a voice

ErrolTheDragon · 20/02/2021 17:01

I’d quite like a thread about the reasons and evidence for being gender critical. The thing is, I’d be gender critical even if there was no sort of trans phenomena. It’s about how bad gender stereotypes are in general, mostly but not only for women and girls. It’s especially bad for anyone who is gender nonconforming. It’s gender which is the problem, not the nonconformity.
Probably reading Delusions of Gender, and trying to read it from a woman’s point of view would be my first recommendation. Tons of evidence in there about how bad gender is for women.