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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bunbury’s Eighth- Sealion training for beginners

999 replies

SophocIestheFox · 13/02/2021 21:08

Old thread nearly full!

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The useful Bunbury Guide to Spotting Community Disruptors is constantly evolving.

The best research and advice is not to engage with community disruptors and trolls. As ever, if you suspect troll activity, report it to MNHQ.

Remember there are people out there who would like to silence us by fair means or foul.

This is a continuation of the Public Service Announcement thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3944572-Bunburys-guide-to-community-disruptors-part-5?pg=40

If and when you see threads plopped into FWR, especially a curious repeat of well worn topics, maybe check for poster history before engaging. AS is your friend.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads that are reproduced on Twitter or Facebook to foment controversy using screen shots & flagging to either MNHQ to have threads or posters deleted.. Sometimes, it’s used to approach commissioning editors with ideas for articles. It’s a tiresome tactic that we always have community disruptor posters who themselves post the comments that they then highlight elsewhere as purported evidence of racism, religious intolerance, anti-men sentiments, or transphobia.

Some helpful links can be found in the ‘Break it Down for me’ and ‘It never happens’ threads but in essence FermatsTheorem recommended “that in the absence of a block/hide poster button, I suggest the following strategy (given that you're talking to the lurkers).

Do not name check the sealion. Instead, respond to a depersonalised paraphrase:

"It is sometimes erroneously suggested that blah. Blah is wrong for the following reasons (short and pithy). If you need more information re. debunking blah, here's a link."

Then (this next step is important to combat derailment) go back up thread to the last useful contribution to the discussion, make sure you do name check that contributor, and pick up the discussion from that point.”

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
TheElementsSong · 20/02/2021 07:43

If we report the OP and say it is a wind-up merchant, or not in the spirit, or something, can the thread be deleted?

ErrolTheDragon · 20/02/2021 07:48

It seems like a thread MNHQ should be aware of, at least.

Biscuitsanddoombar · 20/02/2021 07:55

Ive reported it - as you say daisies, it’s clear that screenshots will end up all over social media

CoffeeTeaChocolate · 20/02/2021 07:56

I posted Blush. I will now sit on my hands.

BoreOfWhabylon · 20/02/2021 08:04

I reported it as soon as it was posted, with links to the OPs Twitter.

It's just been taken down

Message from MNHQ: Thanks for the reports - we've got some concerns about this one so we're taking it down for now. In the meantime, journalist/research requests can be made via [email protected].

Cwenthryth · 20/02/2021 08:06

Aw, no fair. Yes Michelle had obvious malign intent but I thought it was going quite well, and would have served as an education to observers, probably not in the way Michelle intends though.

Now Michelle will just go and claim transphobic silencing or something.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/02/2021 08:06

A civil redirection to the MN press email, good. We should take note of that for similar future trips of that nature, in the same way we point surveys to the right board.

picklemewalnuts · 20/02/2021 08:07

I didn't! I'm giving myself a gold star!

I keep thinking about it though. Thinking surely we state our case and he disproves it. Isn't that how it works?
Men and women are biologically different. Disprove it.
Having plastic surgery or hormones doesn't change your sex. Disprove it.

BoreOfWhabylon · 20/02/2021 08:11

Michelle stated several times that discussion was not the intention of the thread.

Cwenthryth · 20/02/2021 08:23

Yeah, and Michelle was starting to look really silly declining to engage with the points being put across.

Anyway, it probably would have descended into chaos, fair enough. But as Michelle posits untrue assumptions about what “gender critical” points are, it seemed good to be able to point that out for observers. Never mind :-)

DaisiesandButtercups · 20/02/2021 08:27

Exactly as Bore says the OP had no interest in discussion or debate thereby missing the point entirely of what goes on here.

I find it a very hostile stance to walk into a room full of women and demand that we stop what we are doing and give time and attention to explaining ourselves to someone who plainly loathes us and pretty much announced “watch me I’m going to walk in there and show them all up for the that they really are” to hoards of cronies beforehand.

Winesalot · 20/02/2021 08:31

What a bizarre expectation for women to perform on cue knowing this was likely to end up plastered over SM and the subject of a podcast?

And started in the middle of the night in the UK? Like a midnight marauder.

Who, with a healthy respect for other people, would think anyone should ‘perform’ for them, with people knowing from the outset that this was proving a point on twitter. Knowing that anything we put effort in posting will be then targeted for a ‘Debunk’ video and usernames etc will be used and frankly I have seen enough debunking videos to know to probably script it myself.

None of it is original.

BoreOfWhabylon · 20/02/2021 08:32

It would have ended with more posters being reported and receiving strikes/suspensions.

Anyway, we'd best take care not to make this a TAAT.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/02/2021 08:34

If someone is genuinely in good faith, I'd suggest they start their thread at a time when MN mods are on duty in full force, not late a Friday evening. What time did that thread start? That alone tends to make me suspicious - not just on this board, though it used to be common with MRAs

DaisiesandButtercups · 20/02/2021 08:36

Yes we should get back to wildlife and baking! Much happier topics.

I thought the quokka was gorgeous and very much appreciated the adorable picture being posted.

Winesalot · 20/02/2021 08:37

twitter.com/whatthetrans/status/1362963355946917890?s=21

Tweeted 0312

Seriously considering going on Mumsnet asking for any evidence that backs anything.

Has anyone done this already? Is there a thread there full of pro-GC evidence? I don’t really go on there unless I have to for research or something.

Winesalot · 20/02/2021 08:38

Thread started 3.30 ish. I clocked that tactic immediately..Grin

BoreOfWhabylon · 20/02/2021 08:40

4.30am. OP stated they are based in London, so not in a different time zone.

boatyardblues · 20/02/2021 08:41

I find it a very hostile stance to walk into a room full of women and demand that we stop what we are doing and give time and attention to explaining ourselves to someone who plainly loathes us and pretty much announced “watch me I’m going to walk in there and show them all up for the ** that they really are” to hoards of cronies beforehand.

Totally agree with this.

Cwenthryth · 20/02/2021 08:42

All very good points I accept :-)

Maybe Michelle would like to surprise us, rethink and repost with a more open minded and engaged approach. That would be nice. Anyway door is always open to genuine callers isn’t it.

I do find the TAAT thing very limiting when the original thread isn’t there any more to allow discussion of what happened.

BoreOfWhabylon · 20/02/2021 08:42

Sorry, 4.30 was when I reported it.

NotTerfNorCis · 20/02/2021 08:48

Thing is 'Michelle' will be able to claim they have proof that feminists can't back up their arguments and would rather just ban any dissenting voices. I think the thread should have stayed.

FannyCann · 20/02/2021 08:49

Agree boatyardblues perfectly summed up DaisiesandButtercups

ErrolTheDragon · 20/02/2021 08:50

What we're doing now is more of a meta discussion about tactics in general - spotting 'community disruptors' of various types is the purpose of this thread.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/02/2021 08:57

The deletion message is proof of the OPs unprofessional approach. That's why MNHQ took it down.