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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bunbury’s Eighth- Sealion training for beginners

999 replies

SophocIestheFox · 13/02/2021 21:08

Old thread nearly full!

————————————-

The useful Bunbury Guide to Spotting Community Disruptors is constantly evolving.

The best research and advice is not to engage with community disruptors and trolls. As ever, if you suspect troll activity, report it to MNHQ.

Remember there are people out there who would like to silence us by fair means or foul.

This is a continuation of the Public Service Announcement thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3944572-Bunburys-guide-to-community-disruptors-part-5?pg=40

If and when you see threads plopped into FWR, especially a curious repeat of well worn topics, maybe check for poster history before engaging. AS is your friend.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads that are reproduced on Twitter or Facebook to foment controversy using screen shots & flagging to either MNHQ to have threads or posters deleted.. Sometimes, it’s used to approach commissioning editors with ideas for articles. It’s a tiresome tactic that we always have community disruptor posters who themselves post the comments that they then highlight elsewhere as purported evidence of racism, religious intolerance, anti-men sentiments, or transphobia.

Some helpful links can be found in the ‘Break it Down for me’ and ‘It never happens’ threads but in essence FermatsTheorem recommended “that in the absence of a block/hide poster button, I suggest the following strategy (given that you're talking to the lurkers).

Do not name check the sealion. Instead, respond to a depersonalised paraphrase:

"It is sometimes erroneously suggested that blah. Blah is wrong for the following reasons (short and pithy). If you need more information re. debunking blah, here's a link."

Then (this next step is important to combat derailment) go back up thread to the last useful contribution to the discussion, make sure you do name check that contributor, and pick up the discussion from that point.”

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
EdgeOfACoin · 19/02/2021 18:40

Are we allowed to refer to people as having male bodies even if they don't identify as men?

I feel as though the list of forbidden words gets longer.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 19/02/2021 18:43

@MichelleofzeResistance

That's correct Rufus, yes.
Thats taking the fucking piss
BuntingEllacott · 19/02/2021 18:47

@EdgeOfACoin

Are we allowed to refer to people as having male bodies even if they don't identify as men?

I feel as though the list of forbidden words gets longer.

I was told explicitly no.
MoleSmokes · 19/02/2021 19:00

I got two strikes in quick succession, unfortunately within 6 weeks of an earlier strike. That resulted in a week’s suspension. The email I got about it implied that I was lucky not to have been permanently banned (despite that being my first ever suspension).

I asked for clarification because I could not understand what I had said that was worthy of a deletion or a strike. The “offending” word was pointed out to me. I said it would help if newly banned terms were added to the “special rules”. I was told that it’s not straightforward because terms are considered “in context” and might or might not be considered offensive case by case.

That is reasonable, eg. discussion of the meaning of a possibly offensive term would be different to lobbing it at someone with obvious intent to upset, goad, etc.

Still makes it tricky to stay on the right side of the law though. There seems to be a particular problem recognising satire, which doesn’t help.

I agree with PP that this situation makes FWR a stressful minefield for new posters. It must be especially off-putting to Mumsnet regulars who are used to the rather more (ahem!) “robust” atmosphere of some of the other boards.

Coming straight here from one of the more “robust” boards is like exiting a saloon-bar fight in the Wild West by being chucked through the window and landing in a Vicarage tea party!

ArabellaScott · 19/02/2021 19:05

The wider population doesn't actually even understand many of the terms involved.

It's quite hard to explain without recourse to using some of these apparently offensive words, though. I didn't realise 'male' was offensive. I thought it was purely factual and accepted.

Explain 'transwoman', without incurring a ban? Define it in a way that makes it clear for someone not versed in the rhetoric, but without offending any delicate sensibilities? Is that possible?

DaisiesandButtercups · 19/02/2021 19:41

A rather sinister vicarage tea party from which attendees are randomly disappeared if they inadvertently break the ever changing etiquette code.

ArabellaScott · 19/02/2021 19:50

I look forward to the day we can have our own more raucous tea party on the Free Island of Wallabies and Wummins.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 19/02/2021 19:52

Will there be cake?

HermitsLife · 19/02/2021 20:02

Coming straight here from one of the more “robust” boards is like exiting a saloon-bar fight in the Wild West by being chucked through the window and landing in a Vicarage tea party!

Right? Shame we can't make it an Agatha Christie type tea party

ArabellaScott · 19/02/2021 20:15

Yes. Recipe here:

thesnakecake.wordpress.com/2012/11/02/hello-world/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/02/2021 20:21

There is a thread in site stuff about the 50:50 thread where MNHQ have posted if anyone wants to comment.

fatblackcatspaw · 19/02/2021 20:28

terven off board are also up for the island of wimmin and wallabies as rest for exhaustive campaigning

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 19/02/2021 21:05

[quote ArabellaScott]Yes. Recipe here:

thesnakecake.wordpress.com/2012/11/02/hello-world/[/quote]
Good lord 😳

I would be completely and utterly unable to eat that

Beamur · 19/02/2021 21:17

Until the time we can't say Transwomen, then that's all the descriptor we need really.
Women
Transwomen
We know what that means.

EdgeOfACoin · 19/02/2021 21:40

It just goes to show how much the TRAs really don't want women talking on Mumsnet. They know how powerful it is.

The English language has more words than almost any other language. We can find the words to express ourselves meaningfully.

If this platform was so unimportant, they wouldn't attack it so much.

FannyCann · 19/02/2021 22:10

What a relief to find the snake cake didn't involve any actual snake 🐍 in the ingredients!

A brilliant creation. And perfect for a vipers' tea party.

Though it's true, the mind can very much affect the enjoyment of a tasty morsel. Out for a family meal in a popular Thai restaurant (in the days before Covid) I had soft shell cabs, which I have never eaten before. They were delicious. But looked suspiciously like deep fried tarantulas. With each bite the DDs chanted "spider, spider, deep fried spider" and I confess it did marr my enjoyment. Possibly I wouldn't order them again. Confused

Sophoclesthefox · 19/02/2021 22:35

I’m going to start smacking bums if any more fabulous women let themselves be goaded into saying stuff that will get them deleted. I’ll set the badger in the land rover on you! So stop it!

BuntingEllacott · 19/02/2021 22:46

4 fuxake why do women think that playing along with 'But what about meee'-ism is doing anything but waste their time?

The person isn't interested in your answers to their questions, and isn't going to answer yours. They just want to demoralize you and push your compliance. Stop letting them do it.

littlbrowndog · 19/02/2021 23:04

Yes bunting and yes edge

We are still here keeping on 💅💅💅

ArabellaScott · 19/02/2021 23:09

Yep. I'm really enjoying the peace of not responding. JOMO?

ErrolTheDragon · 19/02/2021 23:36

I had been talking about women as a group containing two sexes of women,

Wtf sort of Alice in wonderlands rabbit hole had that thread gone down for to say that, Michelle?Confused (not blaming you just completely mystified how the heck you of all people would say that)

"Women" categorically doesn't contain two sexes of women. I'm a scientist, and I take grave exception to biological denialism. I defy anyone to say that this isn't as important to me as their 'gender identity' is to them, and that my worldview doesn't merit as much civility and consideration as theirs.

BuntingEllacott · 19/02/2021 23:43

Well, I've done my bit. Pigeon chess will resume despite all attempts to head off the attempt. I know, because it took me a few decades to get there, that getting to the point of tuning out the egotist is a slog. But seriously. It doesn't matter how questions you ask the person determined to simply suck your attention up. It's not ever going to make sense; it's not meant to.

ItsLateHumpty · 20/02/2021 06:17

There seems to be a particular problem recognising satire, which doesn’t help.

Yep, after years on this board, I earned my first strike on the 50:50 thread because satire is now uncivil.
And I hardly post anymore because I’m not a good enough gymnast, and this threat doesn’t help.

Biscuitsanddoombar · 20/02/2021 06:38

Obvious fishing expedition is obvious

DaisiesandButtercups · 20/02/2021 07:33

Yes Biscuits and totally in bad faith. Op has a mission and will claim to have succeeded in those aims no matter what.