AIBU Any energy for more?

[Langrycleg]

After the demise of no 4 thread, does anyone think it’s worth reviving or should we rephrase the question? 96%- 4% at the end I think.

Fantastic and educational contributions from many regulars on here. Thank you to all .

Please start thread five .
I have just finished reading all the posts on the previous four ; it has been exhausting but so illuminating .
Thank you Datun , Listening , Langrycleg , Carrots and all the wise , sensible , articulate , informed women who have patiently and steadfastly contributed to this vital debate .
Biological sex matters and has relevance .
Women's spaces are for women .

It was an amazing effort wasn't it? I lost 2 days to it and then had to tear myself away. Fantastic energy from those doing the posting, I wanted to say thanks but then worried missing names of posters out who gave so much energy to it. The Staniland question is very specific. I wonder if a question like "AIBU for thinking women must be able to discuss the impact of gender identity philosophy on our spaces and vocabulary without being called names or threatened?" It is what I want to ask. Is it too much?

it was amazing - 4000 posts in 2 or 3 days - full of helpful and enlightening content.

I wonder if we will be allowed to play over there again soon

I like your new thread idea Joody - I was wondering if I am brave enough to ask mnhq to try and get Caroline Nokes (Chair of the Women and Equalities Select Committee) on as a guest person and we could put our case to her directly as she seems to be quite biased against women's rights but it would be nice to have some direct contact with her.

Of course she could refuse on the grounds that we are all a load of awful people but that would be an interesting move.

I have no idea how the guest chat things work but thought it might be worth a try? We would also need to be allowed to ask sensible questions, not be heavily censored though.

My only comment if you want to start another (and I will continue to join in when I can) is can you add in the first and second post the more specific question that she asked. One mentioning penises and communal changing rooms.

Do you believe male born people with a penis should have the right to undress in a communal changing room where teenage girls are undressing?

Because that is quite specific while still allowing people to say, but toilets are cubicles. It short cuts that conversation.

Good idea @Winesalot. Also wanted to say your contributions to the various threads was mahoosive . @gardenbird48 yes I think it is a great idea I don't have much energy to give to it tonight posting wise, so anyone feels like going for it, I would say go for it.........

Yes, the "they just want to pee" derailing there always is is beyond tedious. As Winesalot says, the original question is much harder to wriggle out of without looking like a callous misogynist who doesn't think women and girls deserve privacy and dignity, and should be prepared to face indecent exposure when they use a communal changing room they believe to be female only.

Which is why the TRAs hate it so much.

We should ask just the Staniland question itself and finally get an honest answer to it! In one of the ‘Mess we’re in’ episodes Helen explains how she was careful to phrase it.

And thanks to you too Garden , Wines , Joody and Erish .

Just thinking about how to phrase it as an AIBU. There are a couple of threads going now which cover some of the ground. But the specific question is still worth asking. Any volunteers?

AIBU to think that male born people with or without a penis should not be allowed to undress in a communal changing room where teenage girls are undressing?

I think it's the wording about not having the right as opposed to being allowed.

Allowance is sometimes dependent on the service provider. Rights aren't.

Hey there! I just wanted to say thank you. Those threads were a real eye opener for me and I'm sure I am not the only woman you reached that way on AIBU. I have learnt a great deal and have started questioning things now. Just to say all your effort aren't in vain

I must admit that I lost energy for the last one but I do think it's a good idea to keep it going. As we all agree, it should be a very easy question to answer.

Damn, missed all the excitement, I don't follow aibu much.

Those poles gave me a bit of hope.
The amount of votes shows people are waking up and aware, even if they feel unable to join in.

Once you see it, you can't unsee it.

Yes agree Datun, will put it up with your suggestion
Glad you found it helpfulSophiederuges
Very little energy left but perhaps worth keeping it going!

Already we have examples...

It was a joy to see all the comments / questions / discussion in AIBU. Brilliant work by the OPs and the patient, thoughtful posters who helped keep the threads going.

People are waking up, no doubt about it!

@Langrycleg

Already we have examples...

Indeed we do. The direct question Spurs a more emotive discussion both ways it seems. Just like on twitter.

Thank you. And thanks for all the feedback from people reading through all the threads. Glad to see it being useful.

Hi @Sophiederuges and welcome

Isn’t it even starker than that. Should girls be forced to strip naked in changing rooms and shower in front of persons with fully functioning male genitalia
Most schools have communal shower facilities and if anything like my school PE was compulsory . Lifelong hater of any form of sport or gyms as a result

8 pages in and I am already exhausted! But pleased to see more new posters. Not so pleased with the weird language used by one or two. Just being told we have no right to be on AIBU.

@Sophiederuges

Hey there! I just wanted to say thank you. Those threads were a real eye opener for me and I'm sure I am not the only woman you reached that way on AIBU. I have learnt a great deal and have started questioning things now. Just to say all your effort aren't in vain

Great to hear, and welcome!

I too arrived on FWR via AIBU, a few years back. Which is how I know that there are many, many women who just don’t know what is happening - I certainly didn’t. And this is one of the very few places where women can discuss this. (And even here we are very heavily policed.)

Life as a woman in 21st century Britain. I never expected it would be like this.