Time Magazine says white women are violent.

[MsSafina]

Time Magazine published the following article about white women and the "Karen" meme. I can't imagine what it's like being called Karen and white these days
time.com/5857023/karen-meme-history-meaning/

I find the whole thing tricky.

White women whatever their class are definitely not immune to. Loads of shit.

But that's in the part of the UK I live in.

I suspect it's even more different in other parts of the Uk

We have problems here. With the police and crime and all sorts.

I don't get why I need to get super upset about USA stuff when all this shit is going on here?

@PlanDeRaccordement

The title irritates me too “violent history of white womanhood” and the only thing they explain that as is how historically white men felt they should protect white women from nonwhite men. Yet they fail to acknowledge that this time in history wasn’t white women demanding protection and ordering white men to be violent to preserve their white womanhood. This was from a patriarchal place of white men viewing white women as their personal property and that they were not going to allow any woman of theirs (daughter, sister, ex girlfriend, etc) to have a relationship with a nonwhite man. In addition, the violence that occurred was primarily directed against the nonwhite man but often also included harming the white woman for her relations with a nonwhite man. There were many many women murdered by angry fathers, brothers, etc because they’d dishonoured the family by walking out with a nonwhite man. The misogynist phrase “damaged goods” comes from that part of history. The woman is merely “goods” an owned thing, and she is “damaged” because she’s been ruined by her association with a nonwhite man and so what do you do with “damaged goods” ? You get rid, you throw them on the streets to be homeless prostitutes or you quietly murder them and stick a fake suicide note by the body.

Such a good point, brilliantly articulated. It isn't privilege at all to be protected by white men if those white men consider themselves your proprietor.

There is no intelligence behind the trend for employing this meme, it is being used as a passible way to say "BITCH" without supposedly actually swearing.

Except every time I here it my brain fills in the word "BITCH" as the meaning and I know exactly what to think of the speaker.

Last heard on a scottish radio station said by a man referring to people on his fbook page discussing a local situation. I turned the radio off and won't listen to that again same as any other show that referred to anyone as "BITCH", especially women.

All the other attempted meanings being wedged and hooked onto the meme are just further bullshit. The word is "BITCH", it is not a nice word and says more about the speaker than the subject. That's why the word "BITCH" is considered unacceptable, let's hope everyone remembers that when they want to discuss this meme and in doing so avoid employing it over and over again reinforcing it (and bullying a bunch of randoms with a perfectly lovely name in the process).

I read that the word originated with a disgruntled ex-husband moaning about his ex-wife (in America on Reddit). Wonder what his name is?

@Womantheonlykind
This is a very good insight. It’s clicked for me now, I can never see it any other way.

I read that the word originated with a disgruntled ex-husband moaning about his ex-wife (in America on Reddit). Wonder what his name is?

If we could find it out we could use it to label all the sad misogynistic men who call women Karens.

@lionobserving
I'm genuinely confused about the response to that article.
If a word other than Karen was used to describe these sorts of entitled middle aged white women, would that be better?
Do you feel as strongly about articles describing MAGA men? Is it that "Karen" is a woman's name that makes it offensive?

I agree, why can't we call it out? Do we get a free pass just for being white, female and middle aged?
Is it just because of the name?
Surely it's the behaviour that makes you a "Karen" or not, as irritating as you may find the name.
I mean, I'm a middle age white woman but if I'm not displaying that behaviour, then it's not referring to me is it?
It wouldn't be a personal insult if it's not about me.

Surely we all know exactly what sort of person is being described. We've all met one..? In the same was as another article will detail MAGA men.
Entitled middle aged, middle class white women refusing to wear masks, taking it upon themselves to be judge jury and executioner to young black guys.. why wouldn't we call this out. Baffling

Exactly

PlanDeRaccordement

The title irritates me too “violent history of white womanhood” and the only thing they explain that as is how historically white men felt they should protect white women from nonwhite men
Yet they fail to acknowledge that this time in history wasn’t white women demanding protection and ordering white men to be violent to preserve their white womanhood. This was from a patriarchal place of white men viewing white women as their personal property and that they were not going to allow any woman of theirs (daughter, sister, ex girlfriend, etc) to have a relationship with a nonwhite man.
In addition, the violence that occurred was primarily directed against the nonwhite man but often also included harming the white woman for her relations with a nonwhite man. There were many many women murdered by angry fathers, brothers, etc because they’d dishonoured the family by walking out with a nonwhite man. The misogynist phrase “damaged goods” comes from that part of history. The woman is merely “goods” an owned thing, and she is “damaged” because she’s been ruined by her association with a nonwhite man and so what do you do with “damaged goods” ? You get rid, you throw them on the streets to be homeless prostitutes or you quietly murder them and stick a fake suicide note by the body

See - how is this just not passing the blame to everyone else but yourself? (yourself being general yourself, for want of context, a "Karen?" )
As in, if I cry, and say I need protecting from the scary man, even if the scary man hasn't done anything {I'm thinking of the New York Central Park incident here for example)
by your argument it's not really my fault because the patriarchy has made it their business to look after their women "property" so I'm just doing it because I don't know any better/that's the way it is/to stop myself being dishonoured if a black man came near me.
I mean, I'm sorry, but WTF I just can't comprehend that mindset.
It's akin in this context to saying a white woman can never be wrong because men.
Always the victim, whatever the circumstances.
I find that much more offensive than the name Karen being used for calling out behaviour.

Bloody bold fail!

I don't know much about the US but in this country, there are an increasing number of mixed marriages. My best friend is married to a guy from Trinidad and relations between the two families and her friends are very harmonious. I see very little point in this race baiting and tension.

Not to mention the ludicrous SNP who were prepared to leave the UK which would have meant automatic expulsion from the EU in their independence vote but now are staunch Remainers.

Sorry wrong thread!

I mean, I'm a middle age white woman but if I'm not displaying that behaviour, then it's not referring to me is it?

Really depends on whats meant by that behaviour to me. If it was about a very specific kind of behaviour, it wouldn't bother me much tbh. But its just..being used against any woman, to shut them up seemingly. At least when I have seen it. Hours between them, I saw women described as Karens for not wearing masks, then for wearing masks. It seems to be about a very different thing in America, but in the UK, its just another way of abusing women while seeming 'right on' from what I have seen. See also Terf. 'OK Boomer' also really, but that has been used against men too. Just a term to shut people down.

All too common these days, latching onto anything to abuse women, even better if one can claim to be 'progressive' while doing so.

I have viewed the video accompanying the article. A couple of very polite middle class people who seemed to be concerned that someone they didn't know was writing graffiti on a wall and damaging property, even if it turns out that the property was his. Subsequently, they both lost their jobs as a result of being cancelled on social media and then denounced as racists. Seriously, is the Stasi society one we want to live in, given that many people tried to escape from the Stasi.

See - how is this just not passing the blame to everyone else but yourself? (yourself being general yourself, for want of context, a "Karen?"

Quaa, the "time in history" being referenced in the text you quoted is not 2020.

And do devote some thought, to the best of your abilities, to the question of what you mean by "general yourself." As half of this thread has been spent explaining to the terminally clueless that this is not America. It's also not the nineteenth century.

Why is racism supposed to be so much worse than misogyny? Why are racist and homophobic terms in music unacceptable but ‘ho’ and ‘bitch’ are numbingly frequent? It’s misogyny that is the oldest hatred of all. Black men (all men) have male privilege over women - if only in a physical sense. Men of all races murder and rape women of all races. Misogyny exists in countries where racism doesn’t (or at least where where few to zero white people). It’s universal to every country and culture on planet earth.

I’m not taking this ‘white women carry the burden of racism’ shit. Being blamed for what men do. Fuck that misogynist shit. I just say ‘no’.

A lot of black women find it a lot easier to ‘kick’ white women than to address misogyny in their own communities. Sad to see how self-defeating it is, if nothing else. Black men are misogynist and violent towards black women too. But they’re given a free pass even as they’re being called ‘ho’ and told to get on their knees in every rap song ever written

Erm

I've not seen black women 'kicking' other women.

And I find the language in the rest of your post gross.

There's a taste of racism and misogyny about it, if I'm honest.

It seems to be about a very different thing in America, but in the UK, its just another way of abusing women while seeming 'right on' from what I have seen

It's no different in America. It absolutely is used as a way to shut women up.

@NoToMisogyny

A lot of black women find it a lot easier to ‘kick’ white women than to address misogyny in their own communities. Sad to see how self-defeating it is, if nothing else. Black men are misogynist and violent towards black women too. But they’re given a free pass even as they’re being called ‘ho’ and told to get on their knees in every rap song ever written

Define “a lot.” And cite sources please.

@NoToMisogyny
Sorry - to further elaborate, if black men are so misogynistic why are you blaming black women for it? Seems sexist or racist (or both) to me.

And news flash rappers are not the majority of black men. And not all rappers are even black but that’s fairly obvious anyway.

I don’t mind badly behaving white women being called Karen for specific racist entitled behaviour, but think it should stop there

What real first name do you think is appropriate for:-

A white man behaving in a racist manner?

A sexist and misogynistic Muslim or Jewish man telling a woman she must move from her seat on a plane?

A young black man who thinks it's ok to call women bitches and hos?

I could go on but I hope you'll get my drift.

That’s a very good illustration of why “Karen” is not okay @DidoLamenting

Julie Burghill book cancelled by publisher for Islamophobic tweets.
www.theguardian.com/media/2020/dec/15/julie-burchill-publisher-cancels-book-contract-islam-tweet-little-brown

@DidoLamenting

I don’t mind badly behaving white women being called Karen for specific racist entitled behaviour, but think it should stop there

What real first name do you think is appropriate for:-

A white man behaving in a racist manner?

A sexist and misogynistic Muslim or Jewish man telling a woman she must move from her seat on a plane?

A young black man who thinks it's ok to call women bitches and hos?

I could go on but I hope you'll get my drift.

Bloody good point. If its just calling out a specific behaviour with a very general name popular in one demographic, then obviously we can do that to other bad behaviours.

Oh no, we can't.