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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Time Magazine says white women are violent.

224 replies

MsSafina · 08/12/2020 22:39

Time Magazine published the following article about white women and the "Karen" meme. I can't imagine what it's like being called Karen and white these days
time.com/5857023/karen-meme-history-meaning/

OP posts:
allmywhat · 09/12/2020 13:27

It’s not ANY woman. It’s a white woman.

Try Googling "Asian Karen." "Black Karen" isn't as common yet but
it's on urban dictionary, and see also site:reddit.com "Black Karen"

It's not only used against white women, and it's increasingly being turned against black women.

turnitonagain · 09/12/2020 13:40

Black women can deal with it, hardly the first time being called names.

BertrandRussell · 09/12/2020 13:44

“ On the subject of the Karen meme it’s been around for centuries in the US but under different names. I have no issue with it because some white women do racist things and so why not have a name for that?“

There is a name for it. Racist.

QuentinWinters · 09/12/2020 13:47

Black women can deal with it, hardly the first time being called names.
GrinGrin
Omg. That is outrageous. So basically the "hierarchy of wrongs" only applies to men.
True colours showing there, I don't think I'll be responding to you again.

Hoppinggreen · 09/12/2020 13:47

That scourge that is middle aged white women, responsible for
Most Rapes
Violence against women and children
Shooting of unarmed black men
Armed robberies
I dont know how I find time to fit it in what with The PTA, school runs, taking the dog out etc

SophocIestheFox · 09/12/2020 13:55

So what I’m understanding is that middle aged white women shouldn’t call the police because if they are violent it will be her fault?

SophocIestheFox · 09/12/2020 14:00

Oh, wait, turniton, you’re the poster who is convinced that all GC feminists are in thrall to the alt right, aren’t you? I seem to remember that you already do think we’re all closet racists.

Hoppinggreen · 09/12/2020 14:01

Yes, if a white Police Officer shoots an unarmed black man that is completely the fault of the woman who called the Police
Apparently

Hoppinggreen · 09/12/2020 14:01

NAWWALT

CatsCantCatchCriminals2 · 09/12/2020 14:11

@turnitonagain

Black women can deal with it, hardly the first time being called names.

Why is that statement itself not racist?

Vermeil · 09/12/2020 14:14

I’m really starting to wonder who is behind the spread of all this divisive crap, and to what purposes...
You take your catchy woke meme de jour, which can be either an old meme gone toxic, such as ‘Karen’, or an academic idea gone bad such as ‘white privilege’, and let it run free amongst the general online populace, which contains a critical mass of people who are intelligent enough to have a very basic understanding of it, but too stupid to apply it properly and appropriately. The result is that it then becomes utterly toxic, and is thrown around in damaging ways. The truth behind it is irrelevant. Yes, racism is a social poison, but will it be cured by aggressive gross generalisations such as the ‘Karen’ meme? How about telling very poor white people they enjoy a privilege so should just shut up and behave?
No.
Neither will lead to the slightest improvement, it will potentially have the opposite effect by getting people’s backs up. They will not engage with you. Why would they? All you’ve done is accuse and them tell them how irredeemably beastly they are. You solve nothing, you may actually, in the long run, have made a bad situation worse because nothing you’ve said is constructive or appeals to people’s better nature or finer feeling.

Well done. golf clap

As an observation, why is it that in the world of contemporary social justice, the one group you can happily throw under a bus is women? The one consistently violently abused and oppressed group, irrespective of race, class, creed or nationality?

CatsCantCatchCriminals2 · 09/12/2020 14:25

Golf clap?

EarthSight · 09/12/2020 14:26

@lionobserving

I'm genuinely confused about the response to that article.

If a word other than Karen was used to describe these sorts of entitled middle aged white women, would that be better?

Do you feel as strongly about articles describing MAGA men? Is it that "Karen" is a woman's name that makes it offensive?

It genuinely confuses me. Surely none of us here relate to the entitled women described in that article so why is it so bothersome? Surely we all know exactly what sort of person is being described. We've all met one..? In the same was as another article will detail MAGA men. Or fake-woke middle class white millennial men. There are specific articles on all sorts of stereotypes; this one is about "Karens". I can't understand the uproar in all honesty.

Entitled middle aged, middle class white women refusing to wear masks, taking it upon themselves to be judge jury and executioner to young black guys.. why wouldn't we call this out. Baffling.

The meme used to be very specific, but in it's actual usage it has now spiraled out into the misogynistic shutting up of women.

You see it a lot online. I saw a woman asking a man not to make suggestive comments about a young woman's breasts in a picture she'd posted in a Facebook group. For that, another woman came along and told her to calm down 'Karen'.

Because American culture is so influential, you have a situation where Karens are being automatically labelled as privileged even in the U.K, where it's been a working class name.

For women not named 'Karen', this has become a stick to beat women down into submission if they display any other characteristic other than being sweet, submissive and compliant. For women actual called 'Karen', it's often a straight jacket where anything they do is used as evidence that they are being typically Karen. Here's a couple of examples -

Karen says she doesn't care very much what what people think of here name. She's pretty chilled generally and things like this usually don't bother her that much

  • The response to that would be 'God, how Karen of her to not care what other people think of her. She must be so privileged to have that attitude'

Karen says she feels hurt and stressed that people are making judgements on her based on her name. She finds the online meme distressing and worries that it might affect her in trying to find a job

  • The response would be 'Oh what a surprise. Karen tries to play the victim, as usual. Next she'll be calling 999'.

*Karen feels angry that people are aggressive towards her just because of her name. She finds it offensive, and will usually challenge someone who tries to belittle her based on the meme'

  • The response would be 'Oh what a typical Karen response! Always getting angry. Always needing to complain'.

You see why it's a straightjacket? It's far more wide reaching than the initial discussion about a certain type of individual.

Furthermore, I've worked in customer service for over a decade in various places, and I can tell you that the nastiest, most aggressive, entitled customers were men. I've had something thrown at me by a man. I've had to call security on men. It's only men who we had to ban from the building because he kept making sexually inappropriate comment based on his fetish to any woman he came across, including staff. It was a man who asked us to hold up an event just for him because he was late.....which would have held up almost 2000 people!!! It was at night too so it would have meant some people might have missed their bus or trains home. From what I can remember our security team had to escort him out of the building because he became aggressive.

It's not that women can't be unpleasant or rude, but I think undue attention is given to difficult women when actually the male ones are worse and there are more of them. Why is that I wonder??

SophocIestheFox · 09/12/2020 14:28

long and troubling legacy of white women in the country weaponizing their victimhood

a particular kind of racial violence white women have instigated for centuries

the danger that white women and their tears pose

the ways in which white womanhood has long posed danger to Black and brown lives.

these women are essentially engaging in violence

I find this language troubling. The debate is being framed with two options.

  1. I agree with the above statements and acknowledge that I’m racist, as all white people are.
  2. I disagree with the above and this means I’m racist but I don’t know it, and I need to be educated until I arrive at option 1.

There’s no option for “I’m not racist” in this framing. And there is no possibility that I can ever arrive at a state of not being racist (even though I am not, in fact, racist). If I disagree, then I haven’t understood it correctly. This is my fundamental problem with how critical race theory is playing out. I find the statements above both racist and sexist, but there is no way to respectfully disagree with them, because the fact that I have a problem with them “proves” I’m racist.

Maybe Robin D’Angelo has terrible thoughts about black and brown people that she has to work every day to suppress, but I honestly never have, so while I can understand that the system can be rigged against BAME people, and this causes ongoing issues that I am grateful I don’t have to contend with, it’s not the contents of my head that needs the work.

CatsCantCatchCriminals2 · 09/12/2020 14:31

Ah! Googled it..

EarthSight · 09/12/2020 14:31

@turnitonagain

Black women can deal with it, hardly the first time being called names.
I would put a lot of money on the fact that if you were called Karen at this time in history, you would not have such a flippant and uncompassionate attitude towards 'dealing with it'.
turnitonagain · 09/12/2020 14:35

@SophocIestheFox

Oh, wait, turniton, you’re the poster who is convinced that all GC feminists are in thrall to the alt right, aren’t you? I seem to remember that you already do think we’re all closet racists.
Not all but those who I suspect I wouldn’t bother to qualify with “closet.”
turnitonagain · 09/12/2020 14:38

@EarthSight I’m not white or middle aged so no I’ve never been called Karen. There are other words for women who look like me.

CatsCantCatchCriminals2 · 09/12/2020 14:38

Not all but..

Phew, not all of us then. Thanks.

May I apply to be one of the non-racists?

Is there a form to fill in?

Cam2020 · 09/12/2020 14:41

This divisiveness bothers me greatly, but if you say anything about it, or BLM's provinence, you're immediately blasted as a racist. That's not at all to say that racism shouldn't be highlighted or dealt with, but it should be dealt with together as a society, not by pitching people against each other. People genuinely fear speaking out about BLM (whose motives, are not really about black lives mattering IMO). Why the hell was the successful 'Kick it Out' football campaign retired in favour of supporting BLM?

mollscroll · 09/12/2020 14:52

Because we all live in America now Sad

EarthSight · 09/12/2020 15:16

[quote turnitonagain]@EarthSight I’m not white or middle aged so no I’ve never been called Karen. There are other words for women who look like me.[/quote]
Yes, unfortunately there are, however I'm not sure why you added that at the end. Do you feel a sense of satisfaction somehow that women (who are innocent or have nothing to do with your mistreatment) are being mistreated in a similar way? Do you secretly feel vindicated by all this?

mollscroll · 09/12/2020 15:19

I've never been called Karen either. I am white and middle aged. I've never been called it because I don't know any twats who would use it (at least not to my face). Doesn't mean it's ok though.

allmywhat · 09/12/2020 15:25

May I apply to be one of the non-racists? Is there a form to fill in?

I think it's kind of like a reverse MLM, you have to meet your quota of people to denounce as racist every month. And you can't meet the quota your antiracist credentials are withdrawn. Tbh I wouldn't recommend joining at this stage of the game - if you join and then can't keep up with the requirements you're just lining yourself up as a denunciation target.

turnitonagain · 09/12/2020 15:38

@EarthSight no I feel horribly disappointed that there is a contingent of white women who instead of coming to a sense of understanding about how BAME women have felt being stereotyped, they’ve instead painted themselves to be the true victims.

Most white women I know in real life - my friends and family - have become more sympathetic, not less. Which is why I find MN such a strange world on this subject.

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