Time Magazine says white women are violent.

[MsSafina]

Time Magazine published the following article about white women and the "Karen" meme. I can't imagine what it's like being called Karen and white these days
time.com/5857023/karen-meme-history-meaning/

There is not a hierarchy of victimhood, misogyny affects ALL women, and ‘Karen’ is just as offensive as the stereotypical bossy black woman trope.

Ask yourself who it suits to try and divide women into subcategories of ‘white women’ and ‘BAME women’ because it sure as hell isn’t helpful to women from any ethnic group.

@TriflePudding

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jul/28/uks-white-female-academics-are-being-privileged-above-women-and-men-of-colour?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

*The myth often peddled is that we must choose either gender or race equality – we couldn’t possibly look at both at once. One academic told me: “I think there is a greater need to focus on gender than race; that is more justified because women make up over 50% of the academic workforce.” So race takes a back seat.

Payback time: academic's plan to launch Free Black University in UK

Researching the subject, I found that when conversations about race are introduced, they are seen as secondary, an “add on” because the standard practice is one where gender is considered more important (and valued) than race. Addressing racial inequalities is seen as time consuming, adding to already overloaded workloads. In contrast, work on gender is seen as worthwhile and contributing directly to an equalities agenda and more deserving than race.*

It’s not that I’m not sympathetic, turnit. It’s that I find the article that this thread is discussing quite distressing in its misogyny and ageism, and that the misogyntic tropes are being deployed against racism doesn’t make me feel any better about it. I’m aware of misogynoir, and I deplore it. But the divisive, accusatory rhetoric in the article won’t move us on from that.

Can you explain a bit more about what you’ve quoted there and how it relates to my post?

Do you disagree with my opinion that there shouldn’t be a hierarchy of victimhood ?

Misogyny is rife amongst some BAME cultures and communities how do we tackle that alongside tackling racism?

white women have been the main beneficiaries of equalities policymaking. They have gained positions as senior managers, professors and vice-chancellors. About 23.9% of professors are white women; only 2.1% are black and Asian minority ethnic women. There are 40 female vice-chancellors, and only one is black.

What would be the ideal percentage / ratio among the different races / ethnic groups to measure progress against?

In the words of Catherine Tate's "Old Gran"...

What a load of old shit.

This issue is another one of those squirrels that's very distracting and takes up a lot of people's time and energy online, but isn't actually getting anyone anywhere 🐿

Misogyny is rife amongst some BAME cultures and communities how do we tackle that alongside tackling racism?

We don't, we ignore whatever doesn't fit the narrative and brand anyone who dares raise it a racist.

It's mostly men I've seen not wearing masks

White women and girls have been the principal victims of organised, systemic, widespread and shockingly violent hate crime and human rights abuses in this country.

If you acknowledge it as hate crime it absolutely dwarfs anything that has been officially recorded as hate crime. But misogyny's not officially a hate crime, and racially motivated crime against white people* is officially not a hate crime, and woke people with their American bullshit have colonised the public square so we aren't able to talk about this horror properly.

All this bullshit jockeying for academic positions can seriously fuck off. It's the concern of privileged people, and making it out as evidence of a serious racial issue facing the country today is the behaviour of a privileged person without any sense of empathy or proportion.

*I'm aware people dispute that there is a specific anti-white animus motivating the child rape gangs. It may be intersectional in nature, as in animus specifically against white women rather than against all white people. But if you look at all the evidence it's very hard to deny there is a racial component to it. Certainly a lot of the victims experienced that there was a racial hatred element to it, and that is all that is needed for a crime to be officially a hate crime if you have a protected characteristic.

No takers for a conversation about the met & institutional racism then?

Which might be more useful than bickering about something going on in a different country.

Are women from all around the world expected to have all this conversation about America or is it just British will women?

It’s not that I’m not sympathetic, turnit. It’s that I find the article that this thread is discussing quite distressing in its misogyny and ageism, and that the misogyntic tropes are being deployed against racism doesn’t make me feel any better about it. I’m aware of misogynoir, and I deplore it. But the divisive, accusatory rhetoric in the article won’t move us on from that.

This.

I don't get how people think that flinging round the 'violent white Karen' thing is going to make anything better for black women? Is it not possible to discuss white privilege without throwing around misogynistic tropes? How does it make things better?

Also, the 'women's words are violence' thing is exactly why we get men assaulting and murdering women because of something they said - she made me do it. So for a woman to write an article perpetuating the idea that women, of whatever colour, as a class are violent because of things that they have said, is quite a shitty take, as they say.

TL;DR badgering U.K. women because they don't have U.S. problems is obnoxious. Some MN are clueless about race in U.S.

This thread really shows how sharing a language doesn't mean you share cultural understanding. Race conversations/content/media dominate most things in America-a long overdue and direct response to people being fed up with the legacy of enslaving Black people for racists reasons long after the Americas abolished slavery of other marginalized groups.

I feel for all the non-American English-speaking women stuck with a debate they didn't start, don't want and don't deserve.

I have a great deal of empathy for Black American women...it's well documented they don't enjoy the same American Dream access Asian and White women and at a lesser degree Hispanic women enjoy. I agree @turnitonagain there are U.K. women on MN who clearly have no understanding of BLM or other Black struggles in America and when they cross into telling us what's what, it's unbelievably frustrating. But we should give them the same respect- woke "educating" on the widespread Karen meme on a U.K. forum does nothing to solve U.S.-specific issues. Also, the U.K. doesn't have the police violence we experience in the US (police are also violent against all races here, while disproportionately against POC).

Police here really, really suck and if you give a shit, you always (sadly) ask this question "what if I call 911 and a person gets hurt by the police?"

A woman from Australia was killed by the MPD (you know, the same asshole police department who murdered George Floyd which started a world wide protest?) She was calling in to report a possible crime. Any call to the police has potential violent consequences here, which really ultimately hurts women, especially Black women who fear that if they call police to help with a violent or disturbed or vulnerable family member, the police may end up murdering them. And, unlike the Australian woman's police killer, police who kill Black Americans tend to away with it.

As a regular tube user, there is virtually nobody not wearing a mask, whether white, black, young, middle aged or old. The compliance is very high. The only low compliance is sitting next to others on the tube, a behaviour which is easily quashed by putting a bag on the seat next to you. Where does the lie about "Karens" berating black people come from? This is mostly US B/S we are importing into this country. Unfortunately, we have young people who identify more with the USA than Europe. They look like Americans, speak like Americans, eat American food, make American music, think the UK police are just the same as the militarised US police. There's a moron on Channel 4 right now, who speaks with a Northern accent but is totally US orientated. If you ask him who is the Italian or Spanish PM, he can't tell you as most of them can't.

We have imported moronic American culture wars into our country. The French would say this is a problem of "Anglo-Saxons" and smirk. Probably rightly so.

White women can be called 'violent', if they are enablers of white men's violence. For example If a bully punches a kid and you're holding the bully's coat or egging him on you are just as bad as the bully, equally culpable and violent even if you didn't punch the kid yourself. Because you are aiding and abetting the bully. That is what the article is saying, that White women are enablers of white men's violence (usu the police).

Like Amy Cooper lying to the police about the black guy, she was expecting them to swoop down and physically hurt or shoot the black man, she knew it was a likelihood at least. She knew the police would be more likely to believe her rather than the guy. She knew the police are violent and armed. By doing what she did she has put herself on equal footing in terms of culpability over what could have happened to the guy.

Most of the outrage on here seems to be about the use of the name 'karen' however. Not what they actually do.

I've said multiple times we could have a good conversation about the issues with the police in the UK but strangely it's way more important that we discuss America.

And if we don't want to discuss what's going on in a totally different culture with a totally different history 1000s of miles away then we must be violent racists.

And specifically if we don't want to discuss how white middle aged women are responsible for all the racism (in the world?) including any violence that is committed by men or institutions or indeed men who are members of institutions. Like the police.

When I lived in France decades ago, the anti racist slogan of the time was Touche Pas A Mon Pote (excuse lack of accents) - don’t touch my mate.

It’s interesting that no one ever expected us to adopt that slogan as evidence of our anti racist credentials even though we have at least as much in common with France as we do with the USA. We had and still have our own approaches to this issue - but these are being silenced by this dominant US culture. Ironically it feels like an obliteration of our own history by a colonial superpower.

The fact there is zero interest in talking about institutional racism and other issues with the met says quite a lot tbh.

Is it only interesting to worry about black men being killed if you can blame white women for it, I wonder.

So, to summarise, not all white women are like that?

The irony is unreal. I normally hate the expression, but some of you need to check your fucking privilege.

@NiceGerbil

I've said multiple times we could have a good conversation about the issues with the police in the UK but strangely it's way more important that we discuss America.

Agreed. So why don't you start a thread on it rather than chastising this one for not changing the subject.

No white women in the UK don't call the cops to come and shoot black men.

The met do have form for killing black men, amongst a host of other issues. However that's not a good topic because what's important isn't black men being killed but white women in a totally different country saying yes it's my fault.

I mean none of you have seen fit to say anything about the UK cases. Seems this stuff doesn't cut both ways doesn't it.

So the issues in the UK and USA ARE different and to be discussed separately, but at the same time women in the UK ARE responsible/ complicit with what goes on in the USA?

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.
Yes