Time Magazine says white women are violent.

[MsSafina]

Time Magazine published the following article about white women and the "Karen" meme. I can't imagine what it's like being called Karen and white these days
time.com/5857023/karen-meme-history-meaning/

Yes that was awful. I don't excuse what she did for a moment. Doesn't mean your "white women are violent" statement stacks up. Men actually are violent as a class. Women are not. They are like men though in that they are capable of lying, being horrible, trying to damage others. Because they are human. Same applies to young black men, old white men, children, teenagers, everyone.

[quote turnitonagain]@MorrisZapp the woman in Central Park lied and said she was being attacked, and made clear to say it was a black man, while pretending to cry.

“just a phone call” is an interesting way of putting it.[/quote]
I didn't say it was just a phone call. I said it was a phone call, and phone calls aren't violence.

They can be illegal and carry a punishment though, as I believe that one was.

Why are you trying to make the word 'violence' have a new meaning? If 'violent crime' now includes malicious crime, then what word do we use when someone has themselves attacked someone bodily?

Who identifies with that woman? You are arguing in bad faith, that's clear.

@mollscroll

Yes that was awful. I don't excuse what she did for a moment. Doesn't mean your "white women are violent" statement stacks up. Men actually are violent as a class. Women are not. They are like men though in that they are capable of lying, being horrible, trying to damage others. Because they are human. Same applies to young black men, old white men, children, teenagers, everyone.

but but white middle class American women called Karen are literally the most violent, racist and powerful people on the planet Moll

luckily in America no men are ever violent or racist which is good to know right?

Why is the headline of an American magazine article, clearly focused on American issues in the subject, being extrapolated in bad faith in the heading of this post?

Men actually are violent as a class. Women are not. They are like men though in that they are capable of lying, being horrible, trying to damage others.

So if you call in violent men to commit violence on your behalf, then it’s totally inappropriate to call you violent as well? Just trying to figure out exactly where the line is drawn. Many architects of violence never held a weapon themselves.

The American Karen thing has been eagerly adopted by misogynists. Shocker.

...is really all you need to know about this daft new trend.

nicegerbil - on the money.

Have you missed the countless threads on here about the Karen meme? We're not allowed to 'call out' sexist dickheads in the UK using this shitey insult in place of 'bitch' because of what it means in America (where they also use it in place of 'bitch' all over twitter anyway).

America coughs, the UK catches a cold. Of course we can discuss and call out misogyny, wherever it stems from. The impact is felt on us. My ten year old boy called me Karen in a sarcastic voice, he's seen it on social media.

So American journalists can’t write about America because of British dickheads. Got it.

@turnitonagain

So asking armed police to intervene in a petty dispute with a black man is not violence?

Do you understand that most posters on this site live in the UK ? Do you understand that the UK is different to the USA ? Do you understand that police in the UK are not routinely armed ?

What's also interesting is, in my experience, Karen is a name most common in my mum's generation (60ish) so it's clearly identifying a sector of women who, as far as much of society is concerned are not much use anymore, past their prime etc. Also less likely to want to cause a fuss and call out wanker misogynists (of both sexes).

Another stick to beat them with.

Fuck that.

Again the context I'm using is UK.

@Greengrasshills so then why was the Time Magazine article posted here if it’s nothing to do with Britain? That’s my entire point! Just because you can read it online in your native language doesn’t mean it’s anything to do with you. The mock outrage is baffling.

Have you missed the countless threads on here about the Karen meme? We're not allowed to 'call out' sexist dickheads in the UK using this shitey insult in place of 'bitch' because of what it means in America (where they also use it in place of 'bitch' all over twitter anyway).

YY. It's bullshit, anyway. It didn't come from black women originally. It came from woman-hating men on Reddit ok that doesn't exactly narrow it down

I think a conversation needs to be had a about racism, we know that white women are equally as capable of racism a white man. We also know that there is a racist/sexist trope of white men saying they need to "defend their women" from non-white men, which has unfortunately meant that there have been instances throughout history and society of racist white women manipulating fear of violence to harm both men and women of other races (eg. The angry black woman trope)

We absolutely need to have these conversations. "Karen" isn't a conversation though, it's a conversation stopper. I've seen it used by misogynists to attack women whilst hiding behind the claim they are anti-racist allies, I've also seen racists using it to be openly racist while trying to pretend they are feminist allies.

The mock outrage is baffling.
My outrage that an American-specific type of racism has been turned into a global misogynist insult based on a name that many many women have is not "mock".
The racism can be discussed without personalised insults.

Objecting to "karen" as an insult is not the same as saying NAWWALT.

I also find it interesting that "Karen" appeared once people had been educated that women in their 40s/50s weren't "boomers". The phrase "ok boomer" seems to have been replaced.

@QuentinWinters

The mock outrage is baffling. My outrage that an American-specific type of racism has been turned into a global misogynist insult based on a name that many many women have is not "mock". The racism can be discussed without personalised insults.

Objecting to "karen" as an insult is not the same as saying NAWWALT.

I also find it interesting that "Karen" appeared once people had been educated that women in their 40s/50s weren't "boomers". The phrase "ok boomer" seems to have been replaced.

Yes, absolutely.

And as said by a pp, the times we live in mean what happens over the pond doesn't occur in a bubble, and vice versus. Social media means insults like this gain traction very quickly, everywhere simultaneously.

I think a conversation needs to be had a about racism, we know that white women are equally as capable of racism a white man. We also know that there is a racist/sexist trope of white men saying they need to "defend their women" from non-white men, which has unfortunately meant that there have been instances throughout history and society of racist white women manipulating fear of violence to harm both men and women of other races (eg. The angry black woman trope)

White women being outraged while negative tropes about black women have persisted for centuries - and it’s their sons and partners being victims of racist violence - is shockingly tone deaf.

The Karen meme will fade with time. Will the bigger issues associated with it? Surely that’s the question.

The Karen meme will fade with time. Will the bigger issues associated with it?
What are the bigger issues associated with "Karen" outside the US context? To me, the biggest issue associated with it is trying to silence middle aged white women, who are ironically the most privileged women and therefore the most likely to be able to effect change. Better shut them up fast eh?

If you can't see the blatant misogyny at work here then I can't help you. Its not ok to say "that misogyny is fine because some white women are racist".

I’m saying there can be a hierarchy of wrongs and “white women being called Karen” is not at the top.

And racism and misogyny are intermingled
for BAME women also.

Are women only allowed to talk about the things at the top of the 'hierarchy of wrongs'? I didn't get the memo.

So asking armed police to intervene in a petty dispute with a black man is not violence?

No, it isn't. Because violence means actually causing physical harm. A phone call doesn't do that. The people responding to the phone call may, and if they do they remain responsible for any violent acts they commit.

I'm not defending the woman - I think what she did was despicable. But not all despicable acts are violent, and I think it diminishes actual violence to start claiming that words are violent.

Most women who are concerned (or as you put it, 'outraged') by misogyny are also concerned about racism.

It's bizarre and random to think that not wanting to be insulted in a sexist way means that we want American police to shoot black people. The two things had absolutely nothing to do with each other until this tiresome meme came along.

I truly don't want misogyny to thrive, and I truly don't want black people in America to be brutalised by the police. Nor do I want racism to be tolerated in this country.

I’m saying there can be a hierarchy of wrongs and “white women being called Karen” is not at the top.
Ah ok. Racism is more serious than misogyny, therefore women need to shut up about misogyny until racism is fixed.
Men seem to be getting a pass entirely for any of this. They can be racist because "Karen made them do it". And they can be misogynist because racism is worse.