Time Magazine says white women are violent.

[MsSafina]

Time Magazine published the following article about white women and the "Karen" meme. I can't imagine what it's like being called Karen and white these days
time.com/5857023/karen-meme-history-meaning/

Where do 'micro aggressions' against black people sit on this hierarchy of wrongs?

I'm done with this fake use of "violent" which stems out of American woke bullshit. I saw one the other day which positioned lesbians not replying to a "recently out" TW on a dating app as "violent." This new, pretend, definition of "violent" is disproportionately used against women. It's the "women's words are as violent as men's violence" patriarchal lie which has been used to justify men beating and raping women since time immemorial, and it's barely even been repackaged. Fuck that.

As for the BS on this thread, we should all refuse to have conversations about race that use American parameters and American norms and American references. Racism in the UK manifests differently and importing the American frame of reference has not helped anyone, it distracts from real issues. Imagine tearing down statues instead of protesting the corruption which led to Grenfell. Or the Tory fuckery on PPE acquisition - which has led to black people disproportionately dying, because black people disproportionately die of Covid - because saving people's lives is less important to this government (by a LONG WAY) than enriching their mates.

It's the "women's words are as violent as men's violence" patriarchal lie which has been used to justify men beating and raping women since time immemorial

forgot to add "murdering."

The use of "violence" to describe being offended or feeling invalidated by someone disagreeing with your worldview or personal identity (rightly or wrongly) is a complete DARVO. It's often used to justify calls for actual violence. If you make the idea of violence meaningless, that's where you end up.

Yes allmy, it's the equivalent of "she was asking for it." Hence TRAs justify sending rape and death threats to GC women because their perfectly reasonable and mainstream views about biology = literal violence. They obviously don't, but women should watch what they say in a patriarchy.

Absolutely 100%. Men get away with actions, their violence is background noise and we don't remember their names.

Women are abhorred for their words. It was ever thus.

TIME would take care to look at the statistics on violent crime. Perhaps women are just really good at being violent and getting away with it.

@HecatesCatsInXmasHats

Thank you for sharing the Atlantic article. It’s a very thoughtful read.

I grew up in the USA. For those who believe that white women are just pretending to be fearful of black men to be malicious, think again. For generations white people were brought up to be afraid of black men. That’s a much deeper problem.

Over the last 20 years, that’s been slowly dismantled. People started to recognise black men’s suffering and unique vulnerability. Just as we’ve been getting to a much better, more cohesive place. The road to becoming one people, it seems identity politics has come along and soured the whole thing.

I appreciate that for people being disadvantaged the changes need to be faster. But manipulating language and trying to be spiteful to groups perceived as frustrating in the past just sets us back after years of meaningful change.

It’s all manners, mores and epistemology nowadays. Movements with no room for objective reality and shared meaning behind words can’t last.

What do they say about white men? The most violet creature of all - except the dinosaurs of course.

which has led to black people disproportionately dying, because black people disproportionately die of Covid

Actually, the more in depth studies that adjusted for confounding factors such as pre-existing health conditions, found that while BAME are more likely to catch Covid and be hospitalised due to where they live and work, white people had the higher mortality rate/disproportionately died from Covid.

“More admissions to hospital are seen in the Black and Minority Ethnic group in this cohort, compared with that expected from the population proportion at a country level. Analysis at a Trust/Healthboard level is well developed and will characterise any selection bias that exists in this cohort.
More admissions to HDU/ITU are seen in the Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME) group, compared to the White ethnic group. These are explained by differences in patient characteristics such as comorbidity. No difference in HDU/ICU admission is seen after adjusting for patient characteristics.
The White ethnic group has higher mortality than the BAME group.
In robust matched models (propensity-score matched), no excess mortality is seen in the BAME group.
In conclusion, Black and Minority Ethnic individuals might be more likely to be admitted to hospital with COVID-19. BAME groups are more likely to be admitted to HDU/ICU. When patient characteristics are taken into account, no excess HDU/ICU admissions or deaths are seen in the BAME group.”
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/886433/s0238-co-cin-report-ethnicity-outcomes-250420-sage29.pdf

Violet? Haha!!

It's a derail, Plan, but briefly: the error you're committing here is contained within the phrase "controlling for comorbidity." Black people do disproportionately die of Covid, that's just a simple fact. I didn't say anything about the reasons, and have no intention of getting into a discussion of the reasons because that's an extraordinarily complex discussion that I doubt either of us is qualified to have and isn't relevant to the thread in any case.

On the subject of the Karen meme it’s been around for centuries in the US but under different names. I have no issue with it because some white women do racist things and so why not have a name for that? I do agree though with the point about it not being violence. Violence is doing bodily harm yourself, not saying racist things or calling the police frivolously. Yes in the US, calling the police carries the risk of violence but that doesn’t make the person calling them guilty of violence. It at most makes them malicious or an accessory to violence.

@allmywhat

It's a derail, Plan, but briefly: the error you're committing here is contained within the phrase "controlling for comorbidity." Black people do disproportionately die of Covid, that's just a simple fact. I didn't say anything about the reasons, and have no intention of getting into a discussion of the reasons because that's an extraordinarily complex discussion that I doubt either of us is qualified to have and isn't relevant to the thread in any case.

“Controlling for comorbidity” isn’t an error. It’s what a good scientific study does. You have to compare like with like. Elderly black with elderly white. Asthmatic black with asthmatic white. Obese black with obese white. Diabetic black with diabetic white. That’s the only way to get to is there a difference between people dying solely due to their ethnicity and not because of other comorbities. This study did this and found that when you compare like with like...same age, same health conditions, white people were more likely to die of Covid than black people.

Black people do disproportionately die of Covid, that's just a simple fact.
Not a fact. It was a hypothesis that has been disproven. That’s my point.

Thank you for that patronising explanation of "controlling for comorbidity." You misunderstood me. It's not the scientific study's error. It's YOUR error. In this context it's irrelevant.

Most women who are concerned (or as you put it, 'outraged') by misogyny are also about racism.

Speak for yourself! Plenty are not.

@allmywhat

Thank you for that patronising explanation of "controlling for comorbidity." You misunderstood me. It's not the scientific study's error. It's YOUR error. In this context it's irrelevant.

My error? Sorry but you are the one in error. You’ve not properly researched the impact of Covid by ethnicity. And apparently don’t understand the importance of adjusting for confounding factors.

@QuentinWinters

I’m saying there can be a hierarchy of wrongs and “white women being called Karen” is not at the top. Ah ok. Racism is more serious than misogyny, therefore women need to shut up about misogyny until racism is fixed. Men seem to be getting a pass entirely for any of this. They can be racist because "Karen made them do it". And they can be misogynist because racism is worse.

It’s not necessarily more important. In this particular situation, I don’t think white women are more negatively affected by “Karen” that the numerous minorities who have been subject to racism by white women.

There was one video where a group of Latinos were playing Spanish music and a white woman shouted at them to get out of America and that she would call Trump to deport them. I struggle to watch that and think “Gosh this is going to make life hard for white women now.” My mind goes to the group of people who can’t even enjoy their cultural music without being shouted at by a bigot.

okay sorry about the derail, this is the last time I feed it. The context was the disproportionate racial impact that inadequate PPE provision has. The mediating variables don't matter. IN THAT CONTEXT. Obviously they matter in the context of an epidemological study that's looking at causes and possible interventions. Duh.

Yes in the US, calling the police carries the risk of violence but that doesn’t make the person calling them guilty of violence. It at most makes them malicious or an accessory to violence.

I’m sure this distinction is very meaningful to a mourning family:

"Karen" has been expanded way beyond its original meaning. Now it's any woman that people want to shut up.

@SunsetBeetch

"Karen" has been expanded way beyond its original meaning. Now it's any woman that people want to shut up.

This.

@SunsetBeetch

"Karen" has been expanded way beyond its original meaning. Now it's any woman that people want to shut up.

It’s not ANY woman. It’s a white woman.

twitter.com/kasecakes/status/1336437778469543939?s=21

This woman’s expression of her frustration with a privileged white woman seeking sympathy in the context of black American suffering might help some understand where another group of women is coming from. Not saying it’s right or wrong but context matters.