Gay men's magazine bullied into grovelling

[aliasundercover]

twitter.com/BoyzMagazine/status/1332052779871965186

Looks like they're gunning for gay men now. Anything other than complete agreement is no good.

Readers here will be used to this sort of insanity:
twitter.com/robholley/status/1332054419337334789
I wonder if it will wake up those who have not seen it before?

I made this comment way back on the thread..

Reminds me of an abusive partner. Set you up to fail, when you fail they have you grovelling profusely to keep the peace. But they don't actually want an apology, they just wanted to see you squirming and humiliated, so they tell you your apology isn't enough because the 'damage' is already done. Then they're justified to keep on beating you until you learn your lesson...

And a poster on this thread has further reinforced this.

Now they're acting like the abusive partner that has been left (by LGBA), so, full of rage that someone would have the nerve to leave them and not centre them in everything anymore, they run around telling anyone who'll listen how awful their ex is. "Don't listen to LGBA, they're crazy. Completely psycho. Stay away, don't listen to them." Smear smear smear, made up stories, the more ludicrous the better, to try and turn everyone against them.

Not sure I'd be on here acting so proud to be mirroring the behaviour of abusers..

@NotBadConsidering

I have said many a time on here that the number of women and girls that need to be sexually assaulted in women’s spaces before TRAs show any concern is always:

Actual number of women and girls assaulted + 1

That is, it will forever be “show us another example before we start caring.”

It’s never enough. Because they don’t actually care. Some people will get their validation and that’s all that matters. They can’t be convinced or changed by the multitude of examples of harm because it will never matter to them.

This.

@Winesalot
Disregarding the effort deployed in ignoring most of the points I'm making in favour of what can be easily disagreed with, there is currently no direct evidence, but there are a lot of questions and little transparency. There are certainly some very strange bed-fellows and unintuitive values.

There has been a lot of money flowing from US right-wing conservative religious groups into the world explicitly targeting women's rights and LGBT rights through lobbying and activism. The current situations in Poland and Hungary are evidence of this.

To their many opponents, the LGBA fit a typical 'trojan horse' model of operations very well, and are seen as engaging in 'divide and conquer' strategies. The situation with Boyz magazine gives much credibility to the notion that LGBA are less 'grass roots' and more 'astroturf'

We are all welcome to our opinions, regardless of how speculative they are. I am in the 'if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck" camp. LGBA are a shower of homophobes and transphobes, and it is not just one or two angry trans saying so.

@Duckwit

or some of the material discussing anal sex that completely misses the fact that many many females don’t find it actually is pleasurable (but don’t let that material fact stop you girls from doing this cool sex act even though it might cause you immeasurable pain and internal damage!).

Ah yes, the old 'look people without prostates, no one has to do anal sex if they don't want to, but it is really pleasurable, pinky promise, and we are going to keep going on and on and on about anal so that, even if you don't really like it or want to try it, you are pressured into thinking it's a totally regular sex act that all people without prostates absolutely LOVE, and like, how will you even know you don't like it if you don't try it at least a few times? Sorry, what's that...? Ah yes, erm... lube, make sure you use lube!'

Do you not think that LGBT inclusive RSE should include details of how a lot of gay and bisexual men have sex? Should kids only be taught the mechanics of straight kids?

And you wonder why LGBT people are horrified by some of the rhetoric coming from gender critical activists.

[quote Melroses]www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-disgraceful-crusade-against-the-lgb-alliance[/quote]
Sharing a piece by a virulent homophobe, that will definitely win LGB people over to your cause. The lack of awareness of what this looks like from the outside is astonishing sometimes.

@Duckwit

LGB Alliance is 'a hate group'

Fair Play for Women is 'a hate group'

Women's Place UK is 'a hate group'

JK Rowling is 'a hate monger'

Any group which is starting to become concerned that the definition of 'hate' is becoming a little bit ridiculous and edging over into the realms of thought-crime is 'a hate group'

I feel a pattern forming here

They really should be more concise. Anyone who does not agree and cheer on everything we say unconditionally is hateful would seem to be accurate.

They might want to read up on what defines a cult.

There has been a lot of money flowing from US right-wing conservative religious groups into the world explicitly targeting women's rights and LGBT rights through lobbying and activism.

What's the point of saying this, MadBadDaddy? Right wing conservatives have always targeted women's groups and LGBT groups.

If you are trying to insinuate that this has anything to do with any gender-crit groups, I presume you have evidence?

Good article Melrose’s

Thanks for sharing

What this shows is that most people do believe in the common sense message of the LGB alliance and only denounce it because they are bullied into it. I doubt the editor has actually changed his mind.

I am in the 'if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck" camp

Oh yes, I think that approach works well in many other circumstances too...

Do you not think that LGBT inclusive RSE should include details of how a lot of gay and bisexual men have sex? Should kids only be taught the mechanics of straight kids?

That's a good point actually

Ideas for the trans led edition of boyzzz.

Binding and top surgery. How to sexually please your transman in great detail with diagrams. How to not trigger dysphoria. How about a massive editorial by a transman explaining why he is more informed than cis men on all men’s issues. How to adjust your language. How to make your spaces more inclusive. Learn to embrace PIV. Why everyone should proactively volunteer their pronouns but everyone does not include trans people because outing, a practical guide would be useful. Perhaps an article including a photo shoot of a trans man who is indistinguishable from a bog standard woman because appearance doesn’t make you trans, it’s how you feel. If they could go on outings to gay saunas and report back all the more informative.

@Quaagars

Do you not think that LGBT inclusive RSE should include details of how a lot of gay and bisexual men have sex? Should kids only be taught the mechanics of straight kids?

That's a good point actually

It would be a really good point if Duckwit was arguing against that, but given Duckwit was arguing against the normalisation of anal sex for teenage girls by males, it really isn’t a good point at all.

It would be a really good point if Duckwit was arguing against that, but given Duckwit was arguing against the normalisation of anal sex for teenage girls by males, it really isn’t a good point at all.

So how do you think it should be taught? As something abnormal that only gays do?

I am all for sex education that doesn’t just focus on heterosexual sex and I think it’s important to cover a range of sexual behaviours and encourage safety.

BUT, the rise in boys wanting anal sex with girls is troubling. Anal sex is always less comfortable and less pleasurable for women, whereas it may enhance pleasure for men. There are health risks attached to it meaning that it cannot be treated completely equally to vaginal sex. Some girls are sustaining quite serious injuries from it and it can have long-term consequences. For gay men, that’s something they have to figure out what they want to do (and some gay couples don’t have penetrative sex or don’t have it often) but for girls, they’re unlikely to get much out of it beyond pleasing their boyfriends and are risking injury in the process.

I mean if all the men demanding anal would be happy to be penetrated by a dildo themselves, then fine, but I reckon most of them would refuse point blank.

Anal sex is always less comfortable and less pleasurable for women

I'm sorry, but that is not true - you cannot speak for all women.

@jj1968

It would be a really good point if Duckwit was arguing against that, but given Duckwit was arguing against the normalisation of anal sex for teenage girls by males, it really isn’t a good point at all.

So how do you think it should be taught? As something abnormal that only gays do?

No, as something that gay men do, which is not abnormal but which have greater health risks than vaginal sex, especially for women, who are physically smaller than men. And it should be reminded that for heterosexual couples, you do have a hole designed for sex that you can use instead and where both the woman and the man are likely to derive pleasure from it, which gay men don’t have.

For both sexes, safety needs to be emphasised and there needs to be an end to the pressure that is placed on young people to replicate what they see in porn. 20 years ago, it was not an expectation among teen girls that they would be into anal and choking. Now it’s seen as commonplace and you’re a prude if you don’t want it. Oddly enough, boys seemed to cope absolutely fine without it before.

@jj1968

It would be a really good point if Duckwit was arguing against that, but given Duckwit was arguing against the normalisation of anal sex for teenage girls by males, it really isn’t a good point at all.

So how do you think it should be taught? As something abnormal that only gays do?

Simple. With facts about what it entails, stats about how frequently grown ups of all sexualities - same and opposite SEX attracted people - practise it, and with clear instructions to all boys and young men that it is not something they should just expect from a partner - male or female - and strong advice to all girls and young women that it is not a standard part of sex and they should not be pressured into doing it.

It’s not difficult is it?

@Quaagars

Anal sex is always less comfortable and less pleasurable for women

I'm sorry, but that is not true - you cannot speak for all women.

Okay but biologically I would find it very odd that women would find anal sex more pleasurable than vaginal sex, seeing as women don’t have a prostate and that there are nerve endings that are stimulated by vaginal sex that are not stimulated by anal sex. In any case, it’s really not something that you should consider if you’re sexually inexperienced and I think education should focus on how it’s okay to say no to it. One of my friends works as an A and E doctor and he’s seen some quite horrific injuries on young girls and they’re not particularly uncommon either.

Am I the only person here wishing that a discussion around LGBT issues did not devolve into heated opinions surrounding male genitalia, again?

@NotBadConsidering

I am in the 'if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck" camp

Oh yes, I think that approach works well in many other circumstances too...

Meaning?

@MadBadDaddy

Am I the only person here wishing that a discussion around LGBT issues did not devolve into heated opinions surrounding male genitalia, again?

Jeez, the irony fail here is too much, it’s just not even worth it.

Do you not think that LGBT inclusive RSE should include details of how a lot of gay and bisexual men have sex? Should kids only be taught the mechanics of straight kids?

When I was at school I knew that gay men had anal sex, I also knew that some heterosexual adults had anal sex. In addition I was also taught about the importance of wearing a condom during anal sex because of the higher risk of tissue tearing.

Somehow I was able to gain this knowledge without having anal sex totally normalised as something that everyone does, and constant 'education' about anal, fisting, 'docking' (or whatever it is called) etc.

Also, it's strange isn't it how 'LGBT inclusive sex' basically means male gay sex, or even male heterosexual sex? Lots of focus on which holes you can stick dicks or fists into, not much focus on how two girls, sorry two people without a prostate can find pleasure with each other.

Simple. With facts about what it entails, stats about how frequently grown ups of all sexualities - same and opposite SEX attracted people - practise it, and with clear instructions to all boys and young men that it is not something they should just expect from a partner - male or female - and strong advice to all girls and young women that it is not a standard part of sex and they should not be pressured into doing it.

I think they should be taught that they shouldn't be pressured into doing anything at all, I don't think it's paticularly helpful to establish a hierarchy.

According to this review 19-32% of women reported having anal sex in the previous year: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5588879/

Is that the kind of statistic you mean?

@MadBadDaddy

Am I the only person here wishing that a discussion around LGBT issues did not devolve into heated opinions surrounding male genitalia, again?

Heated opinions about male genitalia? They're talking about anal sex. Everyone on this planet, regardless of their sex, has an anus.

What on earth are you on about?