Gay men's magazine bullied into grovelling

[aliasundercover]

twitter.com/BoyzMagazine/status/1332052779871965186

Looks like they're gunning for gay men now. Anything other than complete agreement is no good.

Readers here will be used to this sort of insanity:
twitter.com/robholley/status/1332054419337334789
I wonder if it will wake up those who have not seen it before?

@Duckwit

Do you not think that LGBT inclusive RSE should include details of how a lot of gay and bisexual men have sex? Should kids only be taught the mechanics of straight kids?

When I was at school I knew that gay men had anal sex, I also knew that some heterosexual adults had anal sex. In addition I was also taught about the importance of wearing a condom during anal sex because of the higher risk of tissue tearing.

Somehow I was able to gain this knowledge without having anal sex totally normalised as something that everyone does, and constant 'education' about anal, fisting, 'docking' (or whatever it is called) etc.

Also, it's strange isn't it how 'LGBT inclusive sex' basically means male gay sex, or even male heterosexual sex? Lots of focus on which holes you can stick dicks or fists into, not much focus on how two girls, sorry two people without a prostate can find pleasure with each other.

I don't know about you but I didn't learn about anal sex in education I heard about it in the playground.

I absolutely agree on your last point. I think young people should be taught about all kinds of LGBT sex, including how to hygienically use straps ons etc.

Yes, these types of stats jj1968

When asked about their most recent occasion of anal intercourse, similar proportions reported that their male partners had initiated the behavior (68%). A considerable proportion of women (25%) told of having been forced, without their consent, into having anal intercourse on at least one occasion.

@NotBadConsidering - yes! Quacks and waddles are very telling...

Male genitals can cause physical damage to men and women to the point of life changing injuries. It’s quite difficult to do that with a fanny. So I think it’s quite important to be very clear and specific about the sex of the people who are putting bits of themselves into someone else and the sex of the people receiving. How else can you give clear facts on practice and risk?

@Duckwit

Do you not think that LGBT inclusive RSE should include details of how a lot of gay and bisexual men have sex? Should kids only be taught the mechanics of straight kids?

When I was at school I knew that gay men had anal sex, I also knew that some heterosexual adults had anal sex. In addition I was also taught about the importance of wearing a condom during anal sex because of the higher risk of tissue tearing.

Somehow I was able to gain this knowledge without having anal sex totally normalised as something that everyone does, and constant 'education' about anal, fisting, 'docking' (or whatever it is called) etc.

Also, it's strange isn't it how 'LGBT inclusive sex' basically means male gay sex, or even male heterosexual sex? Lots of focus on which holes you can stick dicks or fists into, not much focus on how two girls, sorry two people without a prostate can find pleasure with each other.

Yup, same here. It’s not just that facts are taught but that you are told that you’re a prude if you don’t want anal or that you’re ‘heteronormative’ or whatever. It’s very very male-centred. Many many women find anal either painful or something that they can just take or leave (I take the point that some may enjoy it). It’s really all about men getting an increased sensation of tightness and not having to worry about getting your partner pregnant (and I’d bet that many boys don’t want to wear a condom when they do it either).

@NotBadConsidering

Yes, these types of stats jj1968

When asked about their most recent occasion of anal intercourse, similar proportions reported that their male partners had initiated the behavior (68%). A considerable proportion of women (25%) told of having been forced, without their consent, into having anal intercourse on at least one occasion.

Yes, consent, and male (and in fact all) sexual violence/coercion, should absolutely be discussed in RSE. I imagine sadly there would be similar levels of women reporting the same with PIV sex, which also should be made clear.

@ArcheryAnnie

There has been a lot of money flowing from US right-wing conservative religious groups into the world explicitly targeting women's rights and LGBT rights through lobbying and activism.

What's the point of saying this, MadBadDaddy? Right wing conservatives have always targeted women's groups and LGBT groups.

If you are trying to insinuate that this has anything to do with any gender-crit groups, I presume you have evidence?

@ArcheryAnnie

The "insinuation" is that LGBA, and other GC groups, are doing the Pricks' work for them, often gratis. It can be observed that there is an alignment in values and agenda, which leads away from individual freedoms and community, and towards authoritarianism.

If there was 'evidence' then it wouldn't be an insinuation.

LGBA do have links to known homophobic individuals and organisations, such as WeAreFairCop who recently promoted a hashtag #SayYesToHate. There was a thread on MN earlier this year unironically arguing the merits of Breitbart as sharing values worthy of consideration in the common 'GC' cause.

Strange bedfellows, all in the name of what, exactly?

Yes, consent, and male (and in fact all) sexual violence/coercion, should absolutely be discussed in RSE. I imagine sadly there would be similar levels of women reporting the same with PIV sex, which also should be made clear

Yes, males, of all ages, respecting the boundaries of women and girls is a constant battle jj. Maybe with this bold new strategy to teach this formally to teenage boys they won’t reach their 20s, 30s, 40, or even their 50s thinking those boundaries are worthless.

@NotBadConsidering

Yes, consent, and male (and in fact all) sexual violence/coercion, should absolutely be discussed in RSE. I imagine sadly there would be similar levels of women reporting the same with PIV sex, which also should be made clear

Yes, males, of all ages, respecting the boundaries of women and girls is a constant battle jj. Maybe with this bold new strategy to teach this formally to teenage boys they won’t reach their 20s, 30s, 40, or even their 50s thinking those boundaries are worthless.

Sadly some people will never respect the ethos and values of the spaces they choose to occupy.

This is a contentious issue, and it’s very hard to square opposing positions when there is such a fundamental disagreement over the terms of the debate. We’re convinced that the only way forward is through civil and constructive debate. We do not want Mumsnet to be a place that feels inherently hostile to any group, be that trans people, gender-critical feminists, or anyone else.

Jj1969
"The lack of awareness of what this looks like from the outside is astonishing sometimes."
Followed by..
"I think young people should be taught about all kinds of LGBT sex, including how to hygienically use straps ons"
Irony alert.
Jesus christ.

I think from looking at this thread that there is a general problem with men and the boundaries of women. They seem to think these boundaries to anything from silly (trans women in prisons) to elastic (woman can speak, but only if they do not centre biological woman) to finally a certain boundary (women should not be forced to have sex with anyone or pushed into a type of sex they do not want).

Although I am relieved that certain posters find that the last boundary is obvious, my concern is that some men might not (rapists) and some might think that it is elastic, I.e. it is not a problem to try to convince a woman as long as violence isn’t involved.

I find it a very slippery slope when you start to ignore boundaries. I wonder if some men feel good about themselves that there are at least some boundaries they respect whilst claiming that other men who respect even less boundaries are “bad apples” or “outliers”?

Where to start. I mean, really, where to start.

I’m shaking my head here, because this is so ridiculous.

Actually, now I’m just laughing because the desperate flailing is just so absurd.

This is a contentious issue, and it’s very hard to square opposing positions when there is such a fundamental disagreement over the terms of the debate. We’re convinced that the only way forward is through civil and constructive debate. We do not want Mumsnet to be a place that feels inherently hostile to any group, be that trans people, gender-critical feminists, or anyone else.

Yet when Boyz magazine said, about the LGB Alliance, “let’s hear them out” the civil and constructive debate was quickly shut down wasn’t it?

WeAreFairCop who recently promoted a hashtag #SayYesToHate

There's a difference between hate crimes and hate incidents.

You want to live in a world where you have a record for thinking something someone disagrees with? If I think you're being quite hateful here on this forum, you'd be okay with me reporting you to the police, no justification from me needed other than you've hurt my feelings. You'd be happy that your future employees will see you have a record of hate? No context, just that you're guilty of a hate 'incident'?

The only people 'hate incidents' benefit are narcissists and abusive controllers.

@MoonPomme

Jj1969 "The lack of awareness of what this looks like from the outside is astonishing sometimes." Followed by.. "I think young people should be taught about all kinds of LGBT sex, including how to hygienically use straps ons" Irony alert. Jesus christ.

So you'd disapprove I take it. So no toys, no anal sex. What about oral sex? If that off limits as well?

It sounds to me like some people don't really want RSE education to be LGBT inclusive.

Yes, yet another sunlight shedding thread.

"Sadly some people will never respect the ethos and values of the spaces they choose to occupy."

Ain't that just the truth jj1968.

And MBD, your position smacks of desperation if you're seriously trying to argue that LGB Alliance are homophobic.

Maybe reading too much Pink News has somewhat distorted your view as to what homophobia is?

I didn't learn about sex toys at school? Why the fuck do you need to learn about that at school?!

We are talking about RSE in schools?

Who is supplying minors with sex toys and paraphernalia which they need to be taught to use safely?

Plus strap ons are not just for LGBT. Or is it fine to bring up strap ons if it’s L, or G with T but not when it’s a heterosexual couple where the penis one has reasons for requiring to wield a strap on, or indeed wishes to receive one?

I am heterosexual, but reading this thread makes me wish that all adult males disappeared into some bunker and knocked themselves out with their anal sex, pornography, sex toys and strap ons. This actually makes me so upset.

I want to teach my children (male and female) about sex as a part of a loving and respectful relationship where boundaries are respected. I don’t care about what nature of relationship that is.

@Duckwit

I didn't learn about sex toys at school? Why the fuck do you need to learn about that at school?!

Shouldn't LGB inclusive sex education include information on how LGB people have sex?

No-one seems to have any problems with the mechanics of straight sex being discussed after all.

That transphobia definition should get maximum publicity. Such a long rant with only a few lines on actual hate speech and acts. Most of it explains why women's rights are transphobic and shouldn't exist.

In general, it seems that anything but the most abject obedience and silence is transphobia.

No wonder that trans activists allow no debate at all, because something like this would be torn apart in a real debate.

I think this will hurt the movement. When everything is transphobic, calling someone a transphobe loses all meaning and doesn't stop anyone.

Really incredibly upsetting. These men should be nowhere near children.

I want to teach my children (male and female) about sex as a part of a loving and respectful relationship where boundaries are respected. I don’t care about what nature of relationship that is.

Exactly, and evidently this way of teaching is needed now more than ever, what with some of the really worrying attitudes on the rise.

Someone mentioned Teen Vogue earlier in this thread.

The Teen Vogue article on the pleasures of anal sex for young teens called men prostate-havers which was nice to see in its inclusiveness. But then women were called non-prostate-havers...

The helpful picture in the article about the pelvic area of non-prostate havers was wonderful: It contained no clitoris.

That solved the problem of trying to explain why non-prostate-havers might find anal sex less pleasurable. No clitoris, no problem, as all sex would then be at most lukewarmly pleasurable.

No they shouldn’t.

We are talking about children in school. Ffs

What is going on here