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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

You need a vagina to benefit from a vaginal microbiome intervention

267 replies

VaginalMicrobiome · 13/10/2020 02:52

Namechanged as discussing my job and potentially outing product.
I work in a biotech company where we've been researching and developing a new probiotic treating various aspects of vaginal dysbiosis (thrush, BV, HPV risk and other conditions associated with a disturbed or sub-optimal vaginal microbiome). The formulation we've been working on is nearing market readiness, and this week I (as lead researcher on this project) have been briefing the non-technical members of the company as to the mechanisms of action and clinical applications of the product. In my presentation I addressed the need for a better understanding of the impact of vaginal microbiome disruption, and of women's genitourinary health in general. I used the word 'women' a lot, as one would expect when talking about vaginal health. Anyway, at the end of my presentation, some bright spark in marketing mentioned that we should probably say our product was for 'women and those identifying as women'. Afraid I just could not help myself and snapped back, in front of the whole company, 'well, I do think you would actually need to have a vagina in order to benefit from this product'. He did have the grace to nod and say 'well yes, I guess so'. I possibly should not have reacted so strongly, but was so furious as I felt that all the work I've been doing developing an intervention to help WOMEN was undermined in seconds by a 24 year old male asking for men to immediately be included.
After this, I spent some time searching the published literature on the 'neo-vaginal microbiome'. There hasn't been much research yet, but it seems that, surprise surprise, a neo-vagina is colonised by completely different bacterial species from an actual vagina, so taking a probiotic targeting vaginal health will do diddly-squat for a man with a 'neo-vagina'.
Not sure what I really want out of this thread except to share my despair that women's health issues are being co-opted everywhere, even in an area that could not be more pertinent to female health.

OP posts:
doublehalo · 13/10/2020 15:40

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Cwenthryth · 13/10/2020 15:41

One thing I never understand is why some trans activists decide that us not sharing their beliefs = hate. I don’t hate anyone who believes TWAW, I just don’t agree with them.

IDontMindMarmite · 13/10/2020 15:45

Your suggestions are batshit. I'm not shouting, just calling you out.

wellbehavedwomen · 13/10/2020 16:02

@doublehalo

@Clymene

I have. As the OP says, new vaginas have very little in common with vaginas and so her product would be really inappropriate.

Yes, as the study clearly states a very high percentage of neo vaginas have a very different biome and are unhealthy as a result.

A new biome, modeled on that of a healthy vagina might well be very beneficial.

Alternatively, males can take on board the desperately painful, agonisingly violent, and horrendously abusive suggestion that not everything in the whole fucking world has to be about them.
Totickleamockingbird · 13/10/2020 16:06

I wouldn’t really have snapped back but I would have, very icily, pointed out the structural and physiological differences between an engineered and a natural vagina. Grin

IDontMindMarmite · 13/10/2020 16:07

Oh careful there @wellbehavedwomen, that tone and those italics could well be conceived as not being very nice and you could get told to stop being such a big meanie.

Malahaha · 13/10/2020 16:10

@Totickleamockingbird

I wouldn’t really have snapped back but I would have, very icily, pointed out the structural and physiological differences between an engineered and a natural vagina. Grin
...except for the fact that the vast majority of transwomen don't have even an engineered vagina! Which shows clearly just how uninformed this young man was.
doublehalo · 13/10/2020 16:12

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Butterer · 13/10/2020 16:13

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wellbehavedwomen · 13/10/2020 16:33

And yet, doublehalo, everyone is being infinitely more courteous than you.

Not sure about the halo - very sure about the standards.

IDontMindMarmite · 13/10/2020 16:33

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wellbehavedwomen · 13/10/2020 16:38

Reading material, doublehalo, for the next time you decide to jump onto a feminist board and tell women that they should centre male interests and ignore their own.

doublehalo · 13/10/2020 16:41

@wellbehavedwomen

And yet, doublehalo, everyone is being infinitely more courteous than you.

Not sure about the halo - very sure about the standards.

I don't have double standards. I stuck up for myself and responded in kind.

She's still at it though... you gonna say something to her?

doublehalo · 13/10/2020 16:42

@wellbehavedwomen

]], doublehalo, for the next time you decide to jump onto a feminist board and tell women that they should centre male interests and ignore their own.
This is nuts. When did I tell women to centre male interest and ignore their own??
wellbehavedwomen · 13/10/2020 16:49

She's not been abusive. She's pointed out that you're wrong. You've called her a cunt for it. She focused on your position, while you've attacked her personally - and used extremely misogynist abuse to do so.

This is a feminist board, that centre's women's best interests. You clearly struggle to accept that reality, but women pointing it out is not an attack on you, when you choose to be so fundamentally sexist as to expect this place to centre males, too.

Rearranging facts in your mind to suit your ego does not alter them, I'm afraid. That's how the real world works.

Kantastic · 13/10/2020 16:49

Wow, this is some thread. I was wondering if multiple women clearly stating that neovaginas are different from vaginas might push a few rage buttons but my expectations have been massively exceeded.

I'm not sure whether it's okay to laugh or not. This kind of rage is disturbing in a way but... eh, fuck it, I'm going to laugh. Grin

Sexnotgender · 13/10/2020 16:58

Not being very nice by pointing out the world doesn’t revolve around men😂 how very dare you!

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 13/10/2020 16:59

How do these things go from 0 to 60 😳

Totickleamockingbird · 13/10/2020 16:59

@Kantastic

Wow, this is some thread. I was wondering if multiple women clearly stating that neovaginas are different from vaginas might push a few rage buttons but my expectations have been massively exceeded.

I'm not sure whether it's okay to laugh or not. This kind of rage is disturbing in a way but... eh, fuck it, I'm going to laugh. Grin

Grin
Whatwouldscullydo · 13/10/2020 17:03

I'm not sure whether it's okay to laugh or not. This kind of rage is disturbing in a way but... eh, fuck it, I'm going to laugh

Are we also supoosed to pretend that women saying no to men gives any other reaction than pure rage no matter how nicely we put it...

BigBadVoodooHat · 13/10/2020 17:05

@Cwenthryth

One thing I never understand is why some trans activists decide that us not sharing their beliefs = hate. I don’t hate anyone who believes TWAW, I just don’t agree with them.
Because that's the way of large parts of the online the world now. There's one 'correct' viewpoint; any divergence from that is 'hate speech' and the perpetrator must be 'cancelled' forthwith, or subjected to death/rape threats.
wellbehavedwomen · 13/10/2020 17:15

@Sexnotgender

Not being very nice by pointing out the world doesn’t revolve around men😂 how very dare you!
No, apparently saying research should be about neo-vaginas instead of the boring old cunty type isn't at all saying that males matter more than females. Heaven forfend.

And I suppose it isn't, when you subvert language, so you can erase female people as an identifiable class at all, by making the term self-selected instead of biologically accurate. While insisting that there's no problem with this for the group affected - even if they have always been oppressed by the other group - and even though you eliminate any way to identify who they are, and how they are disadvantaged, by this linguistic gymnastics.

So odd that women object to that. So hateful. Why can't we just be nice?

Clymene · 13/10/2020 17:23

@doublehalo

@Clymene

I have. As the OP says, new vaginas have very little in common with vaginas and so her product would be really inappropriate.

Yes, as the study clearly states a very high percentage of neo vaginas have a very different biome and are unhealthy as a result.

A new biome, modeled on that of a healthy vagina might well be very beneficial.

Please tell me you're having a laugh now.
BacklashBacklash · 13/10/2020 17:29

No, apparently saying research should be about neo-vaginas instead of the boring old cunty type isn't atallsaying that males matter more than females. Heaven forfend.

To be fair, she didn't say this. She said that a new biome modelled on real vaginas might be beneficial. Which might be bollock, scientifically speaking, but nowhere did she suggest that this should happen instead of research on real vaginas. And as DoubleHalo appears to be gender critical, I doubt that was the intention.

I appreciate there's been trolling on this thread. I don't think this was an example of it at all. And I personally think Marmite was bizarrely aggressive in response, though calling her a cunt wasn't in order, obviously.

Cascade220 · 13/10/2020 17:33

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