My daughter has started a relationship with a boy who thinks he is a girl, and my dad is calling herself a lesbian

[MothsAreSadButterflies]

I can't talk to anyone about this . I feel like if I try to talk to my 17 yr daughter I will get schooled on my bigotry.

The transgirl looks and sounds like an 19yr old boy but with long hair, wearing 'girls' clothes.

I put that in quote marks because what does that mean, what are girl clothes? Who cares what people wear, pink is not for girls and blue for boys...hair should not be gendered. Be a boy who is androgynous or feminine ...I don't care. I fought all my life to get equality and to get away from the idea men and women have different minds, or stereotypical clothes or roles...now it seems someone can 'feel' like a girl, I mean what does that mean!? I'm so confused and upset. Saying you ARE a girl and now my daughter thinks and declares you are too and you are lesbians. If she was a lesbian I'm so fine with that. If he was a boy who didn't believe in gender stereotypes and wore make up and dresses I'm fine with that.. it's just this strangeness. They are not lesbians, it's an insult to real lesbians. He has a penis. She could get pregnant. How could two lesbians do that. I'm struggling to get past the idea that the biology is to be ignored.
Saying you are a woman is enough. But for all of our existence women have not been able to access any privilege. Saying we are men still wouldn't privilege us as transmen are not seen as equal to biological men.
And I feel sorry for this transgirl. I feel they must have deep-rooted issues to declare themselves a woman.

But they are not a woman and to say they are lesbians galls me.
It feels like double speak.

@DidoLamenting

So you’d not discuss contraception with an older teen if they asked your advice? Bit odd - you do know many teens are only just becoming sexually active then. Also for women, decisions about contraception last for the whole time there is reproductive capacity. Nothing infantilising about it at all.

But yes, I’d butt out of preferences at any age.

I’d be concerned about a big age gap.

[quote Gwynfluff]@DidoLamenting

So you’d not discuss contraception with an older teen if they asked your advice? Bit odd - you do know many teens are only just becoming sexually active then. Also for women, decisions about contraception last for the whole time there is reproductive capacity. Nothing infantilising about it at all.

But yes, I’d butt out of preferences at any age.

I’d be concerned about a big age gap.[/quote]
Nice straw man there. I made a general point about the obsession on MN about treating young people as children. How you turned that into the scenario you have just made up is your own invention.

I don't know why people are so coy about talking with their kids about their sexual health. Are you this embarrassed when they talk about going to the dentists?

The reality is until they're sexually active all the 'talk' is academic, and thats when the real talk starts, and for all the bluff and bluster not every 14yo is having sex so taking your daughter to get an implant to control her periods and her starting her sex life are two completely separate things.

I felt comfortable talking with my mun about sex, STDs, smear teats, menopause and everything in between.

It seems to be a Mumsnet thing that once your child hits puberty you're supposed to cease all parental responsibility and care.

I think most posters on here are Not saying they woudl waylay their 18 year old and ask exactly what contraception and sexual preferenceS they have

Most just mean ‘you’re sorted with protection yeah?’

And most teenagers with go ‘god yeah, stop being embarrassing’

From what the OP said thats not what happened...her daughter got emotional and upset

And again not every 17 year old is the same

Not for want of trying but one of mine is 18 and still waiting...

@Turquoise2

I'm sorry you're going through this, OP.

Would you not trust your daughter to have safe sex at 17 if she was dating a boy? She knows she can get pregnant and it's frankly quite insulting how so many people on here are obsessed with this.

This is not other people saying green is red. Your daughter and her girlfriend are under no illusion that biologically, your dd's girlfriend is male. It is her gender that is female.

You disagree with the idea of gender, that's okay. But try to understand that for a lot of us gender is very real and just be supportive. Say to your dd you trust her judgement, you know she is an amazing young lady and if she's in love with a transwoman, you accept it. Use the correct pronouns. Even if you disagree, it is petty and disrespectful to misgender someone to their face...or to your dd who just wants your love and respect.

I am a woman and always been a bit of a tomboy, but I just feel completely like a woman. I feel uncomfortable around men, don't know why but always have and have zero close make friends. Around transwomen I feel completely comfortable because they are women in mind and spirit.

If you got to know some transpeople maybe you would understand them more. Good luck, OP.

Women in mind and in spirit?????

What the hell does that even mean? Other than having to believe in souls, in almost New Age or religious thinking, the whole gender movement panders to regressive 1950s or even Victorian ideas of what it's like to be a man or woman. It's baffling! Woman in mind?????? Does that mean one cannot read maps, that someone is gentle, kind and nurturing? That they like make-up and high heels???

Instead of throwing off those expectations, and saying 'we won't be boxed', it's basically embracing often sexist sterotypes and going 'No no! Please put me in a box I belong there!'. It's because of these stereotypes that so many people are confused in the first place where women are being pressured to give up their spaces, to submit. One can say it's rude not to use pronouns, but it's equally disrespectful to expect people to bend their language to suit an ideology that they don't believe in.

'Women in mind'........god help us.

You can agree to disagree.

Your dd can believe what she likes but you will never truly believe that a male is a female just because they say so. She will just have to accept that.

@Flittingaboutagain

I worked in a University health centre and it we had many pregnant distraught young women of 18-23 having terminations because they got pregnant due to being sexually inexperienced until coming to University and not being fully informed of contraception options, or being too shy to ask a partner to use a condom, or too shy to ask for contraceptive advice from us before they started having sex.

It is certainly not the case that at 17 she will be well informed and confident enough to take action on her own.

This is so true.

I have helped my uni aged daughter. She just needed the confidence that she was doing the right thing and that she had the ability to sort out her own choices.

I wouldn't be too sure that the advice and information they received at school is any where near comprehensive enough or that they can put what they 'know' into practice. It is really too important for them to learn the 'hard way'.

And what Rufus says - not every 17 year old is the same.

I had a chance to be accepting and open and my fears and refusal to be open-minded have caused a schism. I think she hates me. I feel like my gut feelings about DD falling for a transwoman are based around fear of the unknown, that everything is going to be harder dating 'her' putting them at risk on trains or in public, of being attacked or singled out .. and at the heart of it I can't accept 'she' is a woman, not really. Not lesbians

Oh dear, OP this must be heart-wrenching.

To have to deny biological reality and your own beliefs to maintain a relationship with your DD. I have no advice, just sympathy for the situation in which you find yourself.

There's a young transperson in my family. I think it's a case of them actually being a butch lesbian in a deeply lesbophobic society (and a parent who thrives on the drama of having a transchild, frankly), but in order to maintain a relationship with that part of the family, I keep my mouth shut.

But this young person is not my actual dear darling daughter ... it must be wrenching for you.

How we live with a deep & sincere belief in reality in general, but accommodate its contradiction in our relationships with our nearest & dearest. OP how do you remain true to yourself while thinking you have to deny your own beliefs & your self, sacrifice yourself, for your DD.

Does your DH feel the same way? It might be interesting to have a conversation with him?

Parenting teens is hard OP and you have done nothing wrong. These arguments are exhausting though and it's easy to feel like a failure. You are neither a failure as a mother nor do you need to deny your own beliefs to get on with your daughter.

I have a child the same age and the wild swings between mature, responsible young (almost) adult and stropping like I used to think only toddlers do is unreal.

I've noticed that agree to disagree is a concept that seems wholly unfamiliar to today's young people in all its implications. But I would try to explain (at a later point, when things are less fraught) that your (political and personal) views on sex and gender do not mean that you reject someone dear to your DD on a personal level just because your beliefs don't align. And that you'd love to get to know the person your DD has fallen in love with.

On the issue of contraception, I don't accept that kind of immature reaction and I don't think you should either. The consequences for boys of unprotected sex are simply not as dire. I did have not tears, but a pretty angry reaction, when I raised it after my child became sexually active. Once the tantrum was over, I made it clear that neither judgement nor prying into private matters motivated me to ask, but wanting to protect from unintended consequences.

The only answer I'm looking for is "yes please mum" or "no thanks, I'll take care of it myself". No more, no less.

When I got told "I took care of it already", I said "that's very responsible of you And that's all I wanted to know," and we were both fine after that.

In your particular situation I would mention to DD that trans inclusive health guides for young LBT women now include sections on contraceptives because some of these relationships may now result in unwanted pregnancies. So you raising the issue is not a matter of rejecting her partner's self-identification but growing out out of your concern for her her health and wellbeing.