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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

My daughter has started a relationship with a boy who thinks he is a girl, and my dad is calling herself a lesbian

211 replies

MothsAreSadButterflies · 15/09/2020 22:24

I can't talk to anyone about this . I feel like if I try to talk to my 17 yr daughter I will get schooled on my bigotry.

The transgirl looks and sounds like an 19yr old boy but with long hair, wearing 'girls' clothes.

I put that in quote marks because what does that mean, what are girl clothes? Who cares what people wear, pink is not for girls and blue for boys...hair should not be gendered. Be a boy who is androgynous or feminine ...I don't care. I fought all my life to get equality and to get away from the idea men and women have different minds, or stereotypical clothes or roles...now it seems someone can 'feel' like a girl, I mean what does that mean!? I'm so confused and upset. Saying you ARE a girl and now my daughter thinks and declares you are too and you are lesbians. If she was a lesbian I'm so fine with that. If he was a boy who didn't believe in gender stereotypes and wore make up and dresses I'm fine with that.. it's just this strangeness. They are not lesbians, it's an insult to real lesbians. He has a penis. She could get pregnant. How could two lesbians do that. I'm struggling to get past the idea that the biology is to be ignored.
Saying you are a woman is enough. But for all of our existence women have not been able to access any privilege. Saying we are men still wouldn't privilege us as transmen are not seen as equal to biological men.
And I feel sorry for this transgirl. I feel they must have deep-rooted issues to declare themselves a woman.

But they are not a woman and to say they are lesbians galls me.
It feels like double speak.

OP posts:
SerenityNowwwww · 16/09/2020 14:36

How very 20th century of you...

Isadora2007 · 16/09/2020 14:44

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BrassicaRabbit · 16/09/2020 14:50

I think you should act like it's no big deal but tell her that she should probably call herself pansexual, to anyone outside the relationship, so as not to be offensive to the lesbian community.

Just get her to think a little bit about how offensive it is to identify into an oppressed group without experiencing any of the crap that goes with it.

I think that is excellent advice. Tell her if they want to pretend to be lesbians in the bedroom it's none of your business. But she has to be made aware of the wider implications of what she is doing. One day, hopefully, misogyny and lesbophobia will be taken as seriously as other prejudices. In an age of social media, she might not want to have stuff on permanent record to later make her cringe.

timetest · 16/09/2020 15:04

I love the quote from Madeleine Burns, “ your mind is so open your brains have fallen out”. Sums it up nicely.
In the 60s and 70s, I dated men with long hair who scoured Kensington market for clothes and looked very feminine, it was a look lots cultivated back then. They were most definitely male and they would have been a bit miffed if anyone thought they were trans women.
Can’t people just play around with gender, do they have to go full on trans these days?

Lordamighty · 16/09/2020 15:41

I have been on here many years & just had my first deletion, even though I am always careful not to break the talk guidelines.

BlackForestCake · 16/09/2020 15:50

I am shocked by the open lesbophobia on this thread, with people repeatedly implying it would be bad if the OP's dad was a lesbian.

TastelessBracelets · 16/09/2020 15:55

@BlackForestCake

I am shocked by the open lesbophobia on this thread, with people repeatedly implying it would be bad if the OP's dad was a lesbian.
Where did you see that? There's confusion over whether the dad or the daughter was the wee lesbian but it turns out no one actually is.
Ihaventgottimeforthis · 16/09/2020 15:56

'DD you may well identify as a lesbian but you are in a heterosexual relationship so please reassure me you are using appropriate contraception'.

ladybee28 · 16/09/2020 15:59

I am shocked by the open lesbophobia on this thread, with people repeatedly implying it would be bad if the OP's dad was a lesbian

I really hope you're joking...

...and if you're not, I think you might have missed the point a bit.

OP has enough on her plate as it is with her DD's male partner appropriating lesbianism, without her dad doing it too.

SapphosRock · 16/09/2020 16:07

I am shocked by the open lesbophobia on this thread, with people repeatedly implying it would be bad if the OP's dad was a lesbian.

I am a lesbian but I would not be impressed if my dad declared himself to be one.

If you need it spelling out, lesbians are female homosexuals and my dad is most definitely not female.

ItalianHat · 16/09/2020 16:21

I am shocked by the open lesbophobia on this thread, with people repeatedly implying it would be bad if the OP's dad was a lesbian

I know @BlackForestCake - it's terrible, isn't it? Almost as if lesbians shouldn't have penises!

EarthSight · 16/09/2020 16:36

Oh dear. The only thing you can do is accept them and be polite. You don't sound hateful at all. You sound worried for your daughter.

I would say the following advice is good for all women, especially young ones -

Don't get involved because you think someone is an injured bird, a misunderstood artist or is the eccentric one in the group that is rejected by society. It shouldn't be your job nurture someone, to sort out their issues, to make the word better or simpler for them - that's their parent's job. Don't be guilt tripped into doing sexual things you don't feel comfortable in doing. You're not mean, selfish, unsupportive or nasty. Don't give in to sulking, denials and bad atmospheres if you don't do what they want you to.

EarthSight · 16/09/2020 16:37

@ItalianHat

I am shocked by the open lesbophobia on this thread, with people repeatedly implying it would be bad if the OP's dad was a lesbian

I know @BlackForestCake - it's terrible, isn't it? Almost as if lesbians shouldn't have penises!

Lol....
SerenityNowwwww · 16/09/2020 16:42

It wasn’t that long ago that girls/young women would try to hide their lesbianism...

elfycat · 16/09/2020 16:45

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SerenityNowwwww · 16/09/2020 16:51

Or what my mum used to say when we had (female) friends join us in holiday ‘if you need any tampons, I’ve stocked up in the bathroom’

Arthersleep · 16/09/2020 17:02

Disappointed to hear about your Dad! That was the bit that I was really looking fwd to! 😉

Arthersleep · 16/09/2020 17:02

@elfycat

😁

BlueJava · 16/09/2020 17:04

I have 2 DS, both late teens. I'd not say anything, be accepting and friendly. The phase may pass if you don't focus on it. As long as they aren't harming people, both in the relationship of their own free will then I just think crack on. At least it's not drugs!

2bazookas · 16/09/2020 17:05

@Gncq

They're 17. It's all the rage.

There's basically no way to be shocking cool and edgy for them because their parents stole tattoos, tongue piercings, goth, grunge, bulemia/anorexia and music festivals.

They'll grow out of it.

It's just a matter of time before fashion comes full circle.

The next BIG THING for teenage rebels is going to be virginity, lovely manners, being a prefect, and getting a paper round.

2bazookas · 16/09/2020 17:15

@SapphosRock

I am shocked by the open lesbophobia on this thread, with people repeatedly implying it would be bad if the OP's dad was a lesbian.

I am a lesbian but I would not be impressed if my dad declared himself to be one.

If you need it spelling out, lesbians are female homosexuals and my dad is most definitely not female.

Surely if a man can be a woman with a dick, so can lesbians? If your dad decides to be a lesbian, so is your mother btw.
ItalianHat · 16/09/2020 17:17

Why not a lesbian? Why should that matter?

It matters because actual lesbians and indeed, many heterosexual women, are being bullied and harassed (and worse) for stating biological facts. And lesbians are being harassed by men who claim they are lesbians - my lesbian friends say it's almost impossible to meet in single-sex. lesbian-friendly places anymore, online or in person.

Lesbianism is same-sex attraction, not same gender.

The person in question "identifies as" a girl, and is a transwoman, not a woman. And there's nothing wrong with that, unless they hurt the OP's daughter, emotionally or psychologically.

Arthersleep · 16/09/2020 17:19

Joking aside though, I do get and understand the trans issue and I have no problem calling anyone whatever they wish to be referred to. And it's a very small minority so I don't feel threatened by it, nor feel that it undermines my rights as a woman. My only concern is that it has become rather trendy for teenagers to suddenly declare that they are trans and also, that a minority who are lobbying for rights are not only brushing people up the wrong way, but are hell-bent on drawing attention to themselves, whereas the trans people who I have met during my life simply wanted to slot in and go unnoticed. I appreciate that the media has stirred up a lot of anxiety over the issue and people have a tendency to imagine how scenarios might pan out, rather than waiting to see if and how they might actually be affected and then dealing with the issue. At the end of the day, it's just about treating every person on an individual basis and with a little sensitivity and kindness. My belief is that, if faced with a child genuinely confused by their sexuality or feeling trapped in their own body, most other parents would actually be quite kind or tolerant, regardless of whether they found it confusing or unsettling.

Arthersleep · 16/09/2020 17:22

I like earth's advice though for women! How true!

midgebabe · 16/09/2020 17:27

The problem with treating everyone in an individual basis is that sex based rights do not do that
They treat people as a member of a sex class

All equality law does this...identifies the class that has problems and makes adjustments for that class

That means a woman doesn't have to make any judgement about a man to determine if they would be happy to get changed in front of them.

Just how we would run changing rooms if every person had the right to chose and that someone else then looked at that individuals case to decide if that was acceptable !