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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My daughter has started a relationship with a boy who thinks he is a girl, and my dad is calling herself a lesbian

211 replies

MothsAreSadButterflies · 15/09/2020 22:24

I can't talk to anyone about this . I feel like if I try to talk to my 17 yr daughter I will get schooled on my bigotry.

The transgirl looks and sounds like an 19yr old boy but with long hair, wearing 'girls' clothes.

I put that in quote marks because what does that mean, what are girl clothes? Who cares what people wear, pink is not for girls and blue for boys...hair should not be gendered. Be a boy who is androgynous or feminine ...I don't care. I fought all my life to get equality and to get away from the idea men and women have different minds, or stereotypical clothes or roles...now it seems someone can 'feel' like a girl, I mean what does that mean!? I'm so confused and upset. Saying you ARE a girl and now my daughter thinks and declares you are too and you are lesbians. If she was a lesbian I'm so fine with that. If he was a boy who didn't believe in gender stereotypes and wore make up and dresses I'm fine with that.. it's just this strangeness. They are not lesbians, it's an insult to real lesbians. He has a penis. She could get pregnant. How could two lesbians do that. I'm struggling to get past the idea that the biology is to be ignored.
Saying you are a woman is enough. But for all of our existence women have not been able to access any privilege. Saying we are men still wouldn't privilege us as transmen are not seen as equal to biological men.
And I feel sorry for this transgirl. I feel they must have deep-rooted issues to declare themselves a woman.

But they are not a woman and to say they are lesbians galls me.
It feels like double speak.

OP posts:
SerenityNowwwww · 16/09/2020 07:28

Does she really not understand how it all works? I’d be pointing her towards the lesbians in the family and say ‘ok as them then, see what they say - women with experience and all that - tell them what you think...’. Only seems to be the straight relatives who seem to think this...

SerenityNowwwww · 16/09/2020 07:30

You child go around cheerily announcing (as my mum did on occasion) “DDs a lesbian - well at least a lad will never get her pregnant!”

SerenityNowwwww · 16/09/2020 07:34

When you say ‘older’ how much older are we talking here?

LookAtTheCahhOlivahhhhh · 16/09/2020 07:39

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IsAnybodyListening · 16/09/2020 07:47

Just re-iterate to her ''You are NOT a lesbian. Your boyfriend has a penis''

My own DD is 20 and at Uni. She has told me a lot about her (platonic!) friend 'Ben'. Well, it transpires 'Ben' is actually a girl called Beth, who prefers 'He' over 'She' now Ben, is only interested in other Men, and classes herself a gay male.

No amount of pointing out to her that her friend is biologically female, and her sexual preferences are males, which would put her in a hetero=sexual bracket would suffice.

Anyway, I got my DD to watch a bit of Posie, and she actually cried in anger! I made it VERY clear which side I stood on.

Anyhow, long story short, it seems the absolute rage to use pro-nouns interchangeably atm, and I'm done.

Keeping2ChevronsApart · 16/09/2020 08:11

A relative of mine in her early a 20s had a boyfriend who started wearing skirts and changed to a female name. She then said she was a lesbian and referred to her as her girlfriend. I couldn't get my head around the fact that in bed they were a man and a woman Confused Fast forward about 7 or 8 years and in her 30s she's grown up and married. Her father declared at the time that the boyfriend just wanted to people to know he was out there. He's still wearing his skirts but my relative refuses to talk about that phase she seems very embarrassed

Lordamighty · 16/09/2020 08:46

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Gwynfluff · 16/09/2020 08:54

I'd be in the blithely ignore camp and just be polite and not oppose or invite discussion.

But you've piqued me with the fact the trans girl/woman is older.

Some people (mostly men) seek out partners who are younger so they have more control. Anything over 20 in the situation would set my gut off that they were actively seeking someone not established in terms of sexual identity and preferences.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 16/09/2020 09:05

@Terrace58

I would ignore that little wrinkle. Follow the same rules you would if she were dating a boy who believed himself to be a boy. Talk to her about safer sex, consent, and contraception.

I agree it’s an insult to lesbians, but I would ignore that part for the moment.

I completely misread the wrinkle bit

But, I completely agree with this and the majority of posters

As long as they are using protection and are in a good relationship its probably best to keep quiet

Really sorry, it must be very hard for you 💐

EyesOpening · 16/09/2020 09:14

I’m no expert but if it was my DD, I’d just let them get on with it as you would have done if the partner wasn’t declaring themselves to be a girl, they can refer to themselves as “lesbians” but I wouldn’t be going along with that part

DontBelongHere · 16/09/2020 09:18

I can imagine this is hard to deal with. What I will say is recently I've been giving some thought to what I was like in my teen years/20s and fuck, I was a right twat. I was a decent enough person, kind and thoughtful and hard working but some of the ideas and ideals I held, with the absolute righteous certainty of youth, are pretty mortifying now. So open minded my brains fell out Grin but also weirdly right wing. And the relationships I engaged in were, quite deliberately, utterly unsuitable and toxic. I feel sick to my stomach thinking back.

I'd stick to biological facts and let her get on with it, then be there if and when she needs you. Easier said than done.

Pikachubaby · 16/09/2020 09:24

I think the role of the parent at that age is to say “that’s lovely dear” and be accepting and supportive

And keeping your thoughts to yourself/MN

youdidask · 16/09/2020 09:26

Sounds like a crap situation all around.

I would be worried about the coercion and control going on if she can't talk to you about things in case it upset the 'girlfriend'

It's very homophobia of them to declare themselves lesbian.

I fucking love Ms Burns, RIP.

It sounds like a trap whatever you do will be wrong which I think is the point.
I agree you need to make it clear your love is unconditional and that it is okay to disagree but that you won't be party to delusional behaviour.
'They' are welcome in your house but everyone must be respectful of everyone's else.
Good luck

2Rebecca · 16/09/2020 09:57

I think many adolescent girls prefer feminine males because they seem less threatening regardless of how they identify. Age 13- 19 I was attracted to feminine men

2Rebecca · 16/09/2020 10:00

Agree them being older and emotionally manipulative is concerning. General chats about the importance of equality in relationships and what emotional manipulation is might be helpful if they are possible

ItalianHat · 16/09/2020 10:05

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MoltenLasagne · 16/09/2020 11:24

I'm another person concerned about you saying the girlfriend is older, by how much? At 17 teenagers think they are adults but they are still quite vulnerable to being manipulated by older partners.

The lesbian thing would be infuriating but I'd bite my tongue except to mention that uniquely in this lesbian partnership your daughter could get pregnant.

SirVixofVixHall · 16/09/2020 11:25

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lottiegarbanzo · 16/09/2020 11:30

Yes to many teenagers and young 20-somethings preferring the feminine / arty / non-comforming / whatever the current label for gentler, more thoughtful, (supposedly) emotionally-competent males is. (And many of us continue to prefer some of those characteristics in later life too!)

My experience is that, while less laddish and blokey, those young men are generally no less selfish, or any more emotionally competent, at core, than your average blokey bloke. They might respect women a bit more and will be less overtly sexist but that doesn't cancel out the pursuit of self-interest. (And some use their emotional literacy and insight into women as people, to manipulate women, often quite successfully).

Also, there's a very real phenomenon of 'lesbian at college' i.e. university, where young women opt for the female end of their bisexuality (or whatever), at a time of life when the majority of young men around them seem immature, undesirable and annoying. Many of these 'lesbians' turn into apparently happily heterosexual older adults.

So I'd treat this as just another 'ooh aren't we special and didn't our generation invent sex!' bit of youthful self-absorption and experimentation and as no more or less inherently risky or difficult than any other teenage relationship.

Age gaps are always a real concern with teenagers, with so little life experience. Are you saying she's 17 and he's 19 though? That's not a big gap. Not like a 23 year-old with a 17 year-old would be.

I would counsel her against feeling the need to define herself publicly at such a young age. I'd reassure her that, as above, most people experiment a bit with early relationships, as a way of finding out who and what they really are and really want. That's all fine. Some women choose to describe themselves as lesbians for political reasons, or reasons of convenience / self-defence / short-term self-interest - and always have, it's nothing new or special. Actually recognising that you are gay (or straight, or whatever) though is something that comes from within. There's no need to declare your hand early and much to be gained by keeping things vague and allowing other people to make assumptions, until you're absolutely sure and confident about how you want to live and present yourself to the world.

lottiegarbanzo · 16/09/2020 11:39

Though, I wouldn't be able to avoid expressing some surprise and offering genuine interest in her burgeoning lesbianism. Of the, possibly facetious, 'when did you first know? what girls have you fancied? who are your lesbian icons? oh, you must read 'The Well of Loneliness (actually don't, it's dreary, defeatist and supports an 'in the worng body' view of homosexuality but there'll be plenty of more helpful and thought-provoking lesbian writing that could be recommended) type. There's plenty of scope for over-egging acceptance into absurdity.

And... the whole point of the 'lesbian in college' identity, is self-protection against irritating, predatory wankers. The switcheroo here is [insert words as appropriate].

DreadPirateLuna · 16/09/2020 12:30

Though, I wouldn't be able to avoid expressing some surprise and offering genuine interest in her burgeoning lesbianism. Of the, possibly facetious, 'when did you first know? what girls have you fancied? who are your lesbian icons?

God, I would be so tempted!

Is she saying she's exclusively attracted to other girls? Because if she's attracted to both boys and girls (and we know at least she is attracted to boys), the word is "bisexual".

Well, it transpires 'Ben' is actually a girl called Beth, who prefers 'He' over 'She' now Ben, is only interested in other Men, and classes herself a gay male.

I can't imagine gay men classifying her as such.

LetsSplashMummy · 16/09/2020 14:18

I think you should act like it's no big deal but tell her that she should probably call herself pansexual, to anyone outside the relationship, so as not to be offensive to the lesbian community.

Just get her to think a little bit about how offensive it is to identify into an oppressed group without experiencing any of the crap that goes with it.

SapphosRock · 16/09/2020 14:22

Anyone else a little disappointed the OP's dad isn't a lesbian? I was looking forward to hearing how he'd worked that one out Grin

OP if your daughter truly believes TWAW then she may well be a lesbian. How many people end up with the person they date at 17 though? I am guessing, as a new lesbian, she may be keen to explore her sexuality further and date lesbians of the female homosexual variety too.

Just love and support her without judgment, it's a right of passage to date people your parents don't approve of.

DontBelongHere · 16/09/2020 14:28

Anyone else a little disappointed the OP's dad isn't a lesbian? I was looking forward to hearing how he'd worked that one out

Very much so. And the reference to she as well. I was very intrigued.

It did make me ponder a bit more about older transitioners. I wondered about my own dad, if he identified as female and started to live as a woman (or my mum and vice versa) and how that would affect the family dynamics. Even down to what we'd call them. Dad obviously implies male. I could probably wrap my head around a sibling but a parent?

People are complicated!

LaurieFairyCake · 16/09/2020 14:35

I think it's fine for your Dd to believe TWAW and how that applies to her relationship (and think she's a lesbian)

If my Dh suddenly decided he was a woman I wouldn't think of myself as a lesbian as he'd still be fucking me with a cock and I know it's terribly old fashioned of me to associate cock with men

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