My daughter has started a relationship with a boy who thinks he is a girl, and my dad is calling herself a lesbian

[MothsAreSadButterflies]

I can't talk to anyone about this . I feel like if I try to talk to my 17 yr daughter I will get schooled on my bigotry.

The transgirl looks and sounds like an 19yr old boy but with long hair, wearing 'girls' clothes.

I put that in quote marks because what does that mean, what are girl clothes? Who cares what people wear, pink is not for girls and blue for boys...hair should not be gendered. Be a boy who is androgynous or feminine ...I don't care. I fought all my life to get equality and to get away from the idea men and women have different minds, or stereotypical clothes or roles...now it seems someone can 'feel' like a girl, I mean what does that mean!? I'm so confused and upset. Saying you ARE a girl and now my daughter thinks and declares you are too and you are lesbians. If she was a lesbian I'm so fine with that. If he was a boy who didn't believe in gender stereotypes and wore make up and dresses I'm fine with that.. it's just this strangeness. They are not lesbians, it's an insult to real lesbians. He has a penis. She could get pregnant. How could two lesbians do that. I'm struggling to get past the idea that the biology is to be ignored.
Saying you are a woman is enough. But for all of our existence women have not been able to access any privilege. Saying we are men still wouldn't privilege us as transmen are not seen as equal to biological men.
And I feel sorry for this transgirl. I feel they must have deep-rooted issues to declare themselves a woman.

But they are not a woman and to say they are lesbians galls me.
It feels like double speak.

I'm sorry you're going through this, OP.

Would you not trust your daughter to have safe sex at 17 if she was dating a boy? She knows she can get pregnant and it's frankly quite insulting how so many people on here are obsessed with this.

This is not other people saying green is red. Your daughter and her girlfriend are under no illusion that biologically, your dd's girlfriend is male. It is her gender that is female.

You disagree with the idea of gender, that's okay. But try to understand that for a lot of us gender is very real and just be supportive. Say to your dd you trust her judgement, you know she is an amazing young lady and if she's in love with a transwoman, you accept it. Use the correct pronouns. Even if you disagree, it is petty and disrespectful to misgender someone to their face...or to your dd who just wants your love and respect.

I am a woman and always been a bit of a tomboy, but I just feel completely like a woman. I feel uncomfortable around men, don't know why but always have and have zero close make friends. Around transwomen I feel completely comfortable because they are women in mind and spirit.

If you got to know some transpeople maybe you would understand them more. Good luck, OP.

You sound like a mature person who knows herself well, Turquoise2. It doesn't sound as though OP's dd is the same yet.

It sounded very much as though OP's attempt to mention the possibility of pregnancy through sex with a male-sexed person - a natural, normal and necessary if often cringey mother-daughter conversation - was taken by her dd to be offensive, through the very act of mentioning her friend's male biology.

It does not sound as though the dd has the distinction between sex and gender all worked out and clear in her own mind, in the way you do.

I think that sort of confused embrace of the new, with great commitment combined with defensiveness, is very common in young adulthood. I recognise and remember it from my own youth, on different topics. My concern here, is the defensiveness. Arrogance, over-confidence, flippancy or jocularity would be far more reassuring. Excessive defensiveness suggests a person feeling unsure, uncertain of their arguments and not fully comfortable with their choices. A follower, not someone fully the author of their own destiny.

OP knows her dd and whether she is generally easily led, or conversely, self-assured, socially-confident and great at standing up for herself.

It's those sorts of things; her reaction, the upset, the sudden personality and behavioural change, combined with a new relationship with a slightly older person, that is a concern here.

17 is a child. Both in the law and also when we understand that our brains don't fully develop until about 24.

Right, you think people in their early 20s aren't adults

Its my job as a mother to talk to my children about the relevant contraception and potential stds

She's 17... She should already know all of this?

Sorry I just can't imagine having a "talk" with my parent about sex and STIs and protection at 17... Why would you need it at that age

Right, you think people in their early 20s aren't adults

In law, they are adults. However, it has since been discovered that our brains don't mature until about 24. That's just fact. Something to be curious about, not offended by.

We still don't know how old the partner is.
I'd be really worried about the fact that her attitude and behaviour changed so drastically so quickly.

Skara the OP strongly implies the partner is 19.

I agree I would say if you're happy then fine but make sure your girlfriend doesn't get you pregnant, which is what I would be saying if she thought of herself as a boy too!

For those saying she is 17....Loads of people already know smoking kills, but we continue repeating the message and advertising it everywhere because knowing it and acting on it are two different things....

And knowing about contraception in theory and knowing how to obtain and use it safely in practice, are two different things.

If her ‘gf’ believes they are a woman would they even be up for using contraception designed for Male bodies? Or Is it all on your daughter OP?

More to the point, getting on and obtaining and using contraception, with confidence, is very different from knowing what it is.

I'm not suggesting the OP should be trying to get too involved with the 'using it' part(!) but checking that the obtaining it part - and thinking about the options that suit her dd best and obtaining those - is something she might be a bit helpful with, depending on her dd's maturity, independence and prior sex life, if any.

and it's frankly quite insulting how so many people on here are obsessed with this

Im certainly not obsessed with it

There are thousands of unwanted teenage pregnancies, id rather my dd wasn’t one of them and im Sure the OP feels the same way

Accidents happen and sometimes we get away with it and sometimes we dont

@lottiegarbanzo

More to the point, getting on and obtaining and using contraception, with confidence, is very different from knowing what it is.

I'm not suggesting the OP should be trying to get too involved with the 'using it' part(!) but checking that the obtaining it part - and thinking about the options that suit her dd best and obtaining those - is something she might be a bit helpful with, depending on her dd's maturity, independence and prior sex life, if any.

Yep

As a poster mentioned upthread some 17 year olds are relatively on the ball with this sort of thing and others aren’t

The OP knows her daughter best

Your relationship with your daughter will last much, much longer than this messed up relationship she has with her SO.

You don't have to talk her out of it. Just wait it out and make sure you still have a good bond when it inevitably blows over.

At 18, it will be her responsibility to keep up with contraception and not get STIs and pregnant when she doesn't want to. So, I would expect a 17 year old to already be able to do these things tbh or it's gonna be a hell of jump when she's an adult.

My parent got me the pill to use when I was 14, and a few of my friends wee 14/15 when their parents got them/took them to get pill/implant.

Sorry I just can't imagine having a "talk" with my parent about sex and STIs and protection at 17... Why would you need it at that age

I'm happy to answer my kids' questions openly and honestly at any age and, with male centred extreme porn available via one click on a smartphone, absolutely determined to give them good advice when asked on ensuring sex is safe and pleasurable for all parties. So yes, we do still have these conversations with our older children as needed.

You appear to be making a sly dig about some sort of moralistic parently and you strike me as someone who is not currently parenting teens. But I could be wrong.

I worked in a University health centre and it we had many pregnant distraught young women of 18-23 having terminations because they got pregnant due to being sexually inexperienced until coming to University and not being fully informed of contraception options, or being too shy to ask a partner to use a condom, or too shy to ask for contraceptive advice from us before they started having sex.

It is certainly not the case that at 17 she will be well informed and confident enough to take action on her own.

*certainly not the case that at 17 she will definitely be well informed and confident enough...

I agree that awareness among teenagers varies.

When I was young, I was really careful but that was during the early years of the AIDS epidemic and I was the child of a lone teen mother so that made me very aware of the consequences of unprotected sex. However from conversations with DS access to condoms and sexual health clinics are much easier now which seems to make them more casual about it.

I stand by my earlier advice. Have the talk then just be there when she needs you but don't get involved. As other PPs have said these relationships don't last, at this stage its all experimentation for her.

Turquoise2 So what is the “mind and spirit” of a woman then ?

@SafeInBed

It's true she's not a child but she's 17... I'd barely conceptualise her as a child at that age, some 17 year olds don't even live with their parents anymore, or they've been kicked out lol, and the last thing a 17 year old wants to be called is a child, it's so infantilising. She's a young woman basically.

I agree. I'm amazed at MN's infantilisation of young people.

I agree. I'm amazed at MN's infantilisation of young people

Same, at 17 you definitely don't want your parents butting in and telling you what you do or don't want, or should be doing, or a contraception talk!
At that age your sex preference/relationships has absolutely NOTHING to do with your parents

Any yet if at 17 (in your first meaningful relationship) she is acting like a child.

Declaring that mentioning that a partner has a penis (and therefore there’s a risk of pregnancy) is hateful and wrong, and getting angry/hysterical when someone points out that male + female + sex can = babies, then she isn’t exactly acting like a responsible adult.

Being concerned/worried isn’t infantilising it’s trying to protect her.