Virgin Active changing rooms segregated by gender identity

[EdgeOfACoin]

Okay, I know this has been mentioned on passing on another thread, but I think it needs its own discussion.

Virgin Active have said that their changing rooms are segregated by gender identity and not by biological sex:

mobile.twitter.com/VirginActiveUK/status/1303378847711272961

I'm a VA member. This is something I would be prepared to cancel my membership over. Are they seriously saying that any male may access women-only communal changing rooms, where there are no individual cubicles, where women routinely queue for showers, provided he says he identifies as a woman?

This isn't about toilets. This isn't about who is 'peeing next to you' in the next cubicle. This is about women having to agree to undress in the presence of male-bodied strangers if they wish to use the facilities.

How is this even remotely defensible?

(I like the Twitter replies though.)

Yes, it's such good news.

I still need to write back to VA but now I'm wondering whether I should wait until Wednesday after Liz Truss has made her announcement.

Also, am I right in thinking that the EHRC's guidance on single-sex spaces is due to be clarified soon...?

I'm going to repeat my questions but it would be good to bring in relevant bits of the law.

@EdgeOfACoin

Yes, it's such good news.

I still need to write back to VA but now I'm wondering whether I should wait until Wednesday after Liz Truss has made her announcement.

Also, am I right in thinking that the EHRC's guidance on single-sex spaces is due to be clarified soon...?

I'm going to repeat my questions but it would be good to bring in relevant bits of the law.

The GEO and EHRC must respond to Ann by Tuesday. Liz Truss is due to speak on Wednesday but we may get the details of her announcement before then as her shadow minister will need time to peruse it and formulate questions for Wednesday.

In your shoes I would certainly hang fire for a couple of days; there will certainly be something you can use from those two events.

@EdgeOfACoin I've not replied yet either (apart from saying what a derisory email and I will be in contact later with a proper response) so will also wait until Wednesday.

@EvelynBeatrice

I don’t fancy sharing a changing room with a strange bloke any more than anyone else. However I don’t think it is right to say that these organisations are misunderstanding the law. I don’t think (happy to be proved wrong)that there is any ‘right’ to single sex spaces - I read the Equality Act as conferring an ability / a discretion to permit sex segregation where it is proportionate etc. That means that it is up to the service provider in question and of course, it is more bother as it has to be justified etc. Of course there are some building/ health and safety regulations in relation to toilets etc which provide for separate facilities in some cases, but that’s a different thing.

Single sex spaces are the default position. Where there are people in states of undress, therefore more vulnerable, they need to remain as single sex. That is the justification.

@highame

Our gym has a gender neutral changing room/loo plus male and female. In the swimming area, it has a family room and also gender neutral. The rest is men or women.

What the hell is so difficult about that

Are you assuming that the women using the women only section are actual women and not transwomen?

Well, when I'm there they are, but can't guarantee people are doing as they should. However, when facilities are available for Transpeople, it is easier to exert ones rights I would guess

It’s the definition - the devil is indeed in the detail.

There is another thread which says Liz Truss is making a statement today.
Also cut off date for EHRC to reply to Ann Sinnott.

Thanks, Norma. Will watch out for both.

The statement is out. There is a thread about it. I'm out so not read the comments but says EA allows sex based rights where needed.
Think it is good news although only glanced quickly and not read the comments.

I had a chat with the manager at my VA club today - she said the they absolutely don't allow random men to self-ID as women, if a male identifying as a female wants to use the club they make individual arrangements by using private areas of the club. It was very reassuring. She also said that anyone over the age of 9 flashing a penis in the ladies' would be escorted from the premises by security, regardless of how they identify.

I'm relieved TBH, I love my gym, I'd hate to have to leave and go elsewhere!

The proof of the pudding though... can you really imagine a Saturday staff member (maybe a student earning some beer money) standing up to someone like the person who ran amock in a convenience store in the US (the recording of often shown - call me ma’am) shouting, banging into things, threatening them? Or shouting the odds about the (not) Equalities Act with various wokey members of the club jumping in saying how dreadfully unfair it is...

@SerenityNowwwww

The proof of the pudding though... can you really imagine a Saturday staff member (maybe a student earning some beer money) standing up to someone like the person who ran amock in a convenience store in the US (the recording of often shown - call me ma’am) shouting, banging into things, threatening them? Or shouting the odds about the (not) Equalities Act with various wokey members of the club jumping in saying how dreadfully unfair it is...

I believe the manager I spoke to today would be having none of it, she was very strong and succinct in her explanation (she's definitely an ally), I really don't fancy the chances of a be-penised individual trying it on.

Mind you, I'm based up North, folk tend not to be so "woke" here.

I think there is a real disconnect between those at the top of VA and the individual club managers.

I still need to write back to VA HQ - the official response was abysmal. Liz Truss's speech was helpful. I'd hoped that we would have had some clarity from Ann Sinnott's case now too.