Bunburying into Autumn (Bunbury 6)

[DianasLasso]

Bit like blackberrying, with added derailment, sealioning and general JAQ-ing off. I'll copy and paste the opening post of the last thread.

The useful Bunbury Guide to Spotting Community Disruptors is constantly evolving.

The best research and advice is not to engage with community disruptors and trolls. As ever, if you suspect troll activity, report it to MNHQ.

Remember there are people out there who would like to silence us by fair means or foul.

This is a continuation of the Public Service Announcement thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3944572-Bunburys-guide-to-community-disruptors-part-5?pg=40

If and when you see threads plopped into FWR, especially a curious repeat of well worn topics, maybe check for poster history before engaging. AS is your friend.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads that are reproduced on Twitter or Facebook to foment controversy using screen shots & flagging to either MNHQ to have threads or posters deleted.. Sometimes, it’s used to approach commissioning editors with ideas for articles. It’s a tiresome tactic that we always have community disruptor posters who themselves post the comments that they then highlight elsewhere as purported evidence of racism, religious intolerance, anti-men sentiments, or transphobia.

Some helpful links can be found in the ‘Break it Down for me’ and ‘It never happens’ threads but in essence FermatsTheorem recommended “that in the absence of a block/hide poster button, I suggest the following strategy (given that you're talking to the lurkers).

Do not name check the sealion. Instead, respond to a depersonalised paraphrase:

"It is sometimes erroneously suggested that blah. Blah is wrong for the following reasons (short and pithy). If you need more information re. debunking blah, here's a link."

Then (this next step is important to combat derailment) go back up thread to the last useful contribution to the discussion, make sure you do name check that contributor, and pick up the discussion from that point.”

Go well Witches gin

It was deleted once someone linked to the Twitter obsessives highlighting it as great trolling. For some reason the only evidence of obvious trollery that finally gets the big red button is the say so of the Twitter monitors, lots of FWR users reporting it have to just play nice. Plus ca change.

Exactly Floral. They need specialised monitors for FWR. The peace thread stank from the opening post. And long time posters were ignored and dismissed.
FFS if Americans are targeting us MN must be doing something right.

ah... don't follow enough TRAs on twitter to see it... I hope I did not make situation worse....

I don't follow any. I'm just a bit long in the tooth. At least two of the creepy little twerps used to post here and got banned and keep coming back with new names. What a jolly jape.

A little thought on the psychology of trolling (which I know we talked about on another thread).

Most people, when they get into an online spat, find it upsetting. Most normal people don't like conflict, certainly not conflict for conflict's sake. We can and do of course all get drawn into heated arguments from time to time when we care deeply - and we may get invested in feeling like we have to respond to every point, correct every last detail. But usually when it's a normal person getting drawn into a subject which they have a deep real life investment in, you'll be able to see their emotional connection.

When, instead, you see a thread where pretty much every other post is an individual poster responding to a previous point, over and over again, in a seemingly detached way, ignoring all input from the other side (other than the points they want to pick up on), never acknowledging the other side's point of view (never saying"Yes I can see why you think this, but this is why I think the other side is actually more defensible" - delivered in a thought out, compassionate way), just seemingly being contrarian for the sake of it, and even seemingly getting pleasure out of winding their opponent up to the point where the opponent lashes out...

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I put it to you that that person is likely to be a community disruptor. It's the opportunity to be a contrarian to get off on winding other people up that appeals to them. They don't even believe what they're saying. No normal person argues for the sake of it - normal people care about the subject matter, get emotional about the subject matter (even if they know enough to keep their emotions under check with the use of reason, and even if they use their emotional IQ to at least try to see the other side's point of view).

TL:DR - arguing with a troll online is like wrestling with a pig. You both end up covered in shit, but the pig enjoys it.

It strikes me, reading your post, that very much the same behaviour quite often features in Relationships threads. And often the consensus response is LTB.

Years ago I read an article about how men tend to argue. The gist of it was men tend to argue to win the argument; women more often argue to get to the truth of the matter.

I applied this to my (abusive) partner at the time - miraculous! When I abandoned all attempts to get to the truth of the matter and instead started using the same tactics he did, I started to win arguments. I mean, it wasn't a long term victory, it was a shit relationshp, and I find it pretty pointless to win arguments for the sake of it, but it was revelatory to me.

Wish I could remember what the article was ...

Eurgh, I just had a quick google and it threw up dozens of MRA type sites. Yuk.

I should add, the arguing style of my ex might have been more to do with him being an arsehole than being male, I suppose. Small sample. (thank fuck).

Is there a handy Venn diagram which shows the overlap betwixt MRA men, TRA men, INCEL men and those men who have the three letters we can't mention?

Asking for a friend.

Not a Venn diagram, but I think it might look like the Woolmark symbol, with the Mobius (sp?) strip.....

...or just one great big circle - labelled "sexist losers".

I've made a blank one you can fill in yourself.

Arabella What could that possibly mean

Nice one Arabella

Detractor alert.

Posie Parker isn't everyone's cup of tea but seeing how the thread about her Leeds protest has brought some of the monitors out into the open shows that she is effective at exposing things to sunlight.

If they couldn’t give a flying saucer about something, why dominate a thread they couldn’t give a flying saucer about? Been a tough 24 hours for them. Plenty of dummies hitting the ground.

@DialSquare

Detractor alert.

But they're being sooo subtle. How on earth did you spot them?

It's a gift Cara!

The never heard of her, no idea who she is, followed smartly by comments in the same post about disapproving of the views she has a history of representing kind of gave it away.

And she's trending on Twitter, yet no one knew who she is. Curious ?

Once again, I'm getting a feeling of deja vu from that poster.

I watched the long Twitter roll and it looked very well-thought out. As if planning and editing had taken place before posting. Not at all reactionary, but likely was holding on to this for the right day.

Arabella

Maybe FWR gets the novice undercover agents; we’re a training ground for the feckless? Because going on their general performance, they couldn’t successfully infiltrate a matchbox.

It’s that kind of crap performance which makes a nonsense of conspiracy theories; people are crap at keeping secrets and pretending to be someone else.