To find it really difficult to support trans women now

[Shockedandbefuddled]

Some of the people who are threatening sexual violence towards JK Rowling are the people who want to access female spaces.

I really tried to be kind and support trans women. I know it’s not the general tone on here.

I was absolutely not willing to do it at the expense of women’s safety and dignity but felt there was a middle ground and the argument was too polarised.

I suggested my problems with self ID were the chances of predatory males using it to get in to female spaces. The twitter responses to JKR have demonstrated that some trans women will threaten another woman with sexual violence if they disagree with her views on womanhood.

Can these violent, hate-filled people not see what they are doing to there cause?

I apologise to all the decent trans people out there but some of the aggression has left me fearful that the loudest voices in the community are advocating sexual violence.

(Apologies for the repetition of violent / violence but ... )

They just come across as thick as mince, or worse, narcissists. Someone makes a comment and they are straight in shouting STOP DENYING MY EXISTANCE!!1!

Sorry should have said ‘their’ cause

Amen sister, thinking the same . It’s dispelled any doubt in my mind that that TW might slightly possibly be W.

I also can’t understand why twitter allows such vile, abusive posts to stand.

I hope all transwomen lead a happy and successful life, I hope they find a way to be happy in their skin and bodies, I will intervene if they are harassed and abused.

and I will fight to the death for women only spaces to be for women and for the female sex to exist as itself, not as a subset of the male sex

Transwomen are not women. And that’s ok. Be transwomen and be proud of yourselves. But don’t try and eradicate the right of natal women (or just “women”) to exist. Flame me, I’m past caring. This matters.

I’m not on Twitter so no idea what’s been said. Nothing would surprise me though.

@dementedma

I hope all transwomen lead a happy and successful life, I hope they find a way to be happy in their skin and bodies, I will intervene if they are harassed and abused.

and I will fight to the death for women only spaces to be for women and for the female sex to exist as itself, not as a subset of the male sex

Transwomen are not women. And that’s ok. Be transwomen and be proud of yourselves. But don’t try and eradicate the right of natal women (or just “women”) to exist. Flame me, I’m past caring. This matters.

Yes, this entirely. I always think when I see trans women on awards for women is why not campaign for trans awards? It would be pushing at an open door at the moment. But I know the response

Yes. There are some very loud, very aggressive voices.
I agree the whole discussion/ situation doesn't need to be so polarised.. but anyone with questions and concerns is branded awful and gets death threats.

I do support Trans-women to express their self identified female gender. I am 100% happy to refer to them as she / her or they / them according to their individual preference. I am 100% happy with their choice to wear dresses, or other female clothes if that's what they'd like to wear. I also have no problem at all if they'd like to use a female name instead of their birth name.

However, it is critically important to provide safe areas such as changing rooms, refuges etc for women and girls i.e. female bodied women who do NOT have a penis. NO person with male genitals should be allowed into those areas.

It is also imperative to not allow men or transwomen in women's sport. I mean people who have male sexual biology (chromosomes, testosterone levels throughout life till transition, muscles, physical build etc etc ).

There is obviously a fundamental difference between gender, (which can be fluid; a person can choose their gender) and sex (which is a biological medical term for the physical side which we cannot choose).

Operations and eg hormone therapies can alter certain features of one's physical sex, so once a transwoman has had the penis removed, I would consider her less of a potential risk to women and girls. It is completely obvious why.

My best friend at school was raped age 14, so I am very aware of the dangers of allowing male bodied people into female only areas.

I found all the stuff on Twitter quite upsetting and ended up unfollowing people who I had previously liked the tweets of. I am usually a 'live and let live' kind of person but just could not stand any more anti JKR stuff. The stuff they say just does not make sense.

Yes my views harden as time goes on tbh and I care less and less.

I agree that one of the terrible things about this situation is that it makes trans people look bad. I am sure there are plenty of people who are trans who just want to get on with their lives and aren’t part of this abuse and extremism. But we don’t get to hear from them so much.

There's no point supporting people who would never support you/are happy to see you lose rights for their own benefit. They're showing everyone what they really are now and I couldn't be happier about that. They're aggressive, violent men and always will be. There's no point reasoning with them because they will always play the victim. "When people (men) show you who they are, believe them the first time" - Maya Angelou.

Unfortunately the more reasonable trans voices are being drowned out. The backlash, when it comes and it will do, will negatively affect them
The one" good thing" about the whole row over JK's remarks is that it has made a lot of people aware of trans issues and made people think/discuss the denial of biological reality

@MingeofDeath

Unfortunately the more reasonable trans voices are being drowned out. The backlash, when it comes and it will do, will negatively affect them The one" good thing" about the whole row over JK's remarks is that it has made a lot of people aware of trans issues and made people think/discuss the denial of biological reality

The thing is, Transwomen are sexually-biologically-medically male.

Males are statistically FAR more likely to be aggressive.

The aggression they are showing, reveals their male sex. Regardless of their chosen gender.

Great Post @dementedma you have put into words exactly how I feel

For any lurkers

medium.com/@rebeccarc/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-activists-a-story-in-screenshots-78e01dca68d

It’s so difficult to be an ally when the loudest voices are so aggressive.

I said on another thread that it’s interesting how the first reaction of these “women” is to threaten sexual violence with their penises. With the very part of their anatomy that distinguishes them from women.

I have never, ever heard a natal women try to silence someone with “suck my lady dick”. Because guess what, women don’t have dicks, lady or otherwise. So their first thought is not to commit sexual violence with their penis...

I simply don't understand how people can be so thick that they can't understand that gender and sex are TWO separate things.

Transwomen are male (sex-biology-medical) and that is a medical FACT

FACTS can't be adapted to suit ideology!

Transwomen choose to have female gender. That is their choice, but it's completely obvious it doesn't make them become women. Nobody can change the sex they are born with.

I'm not entirely sure the people who react so violently are actually trans-women, I think they're just angry, sexually dysfunctional, hetero misogynists.

I don’t feel like those horrible people are representative of transwomen so I am still broadly supportive of them but... I’ve seen some of my female friends retweeting those threats approvingly because JKR “deserves” it for being transphobic. And I just think: WTF? You’re OK with this? You agree that a woman should be raped for asking questions or disagreeing or stating facts? It is truly horrifying. People who claim to be feminists advocating sexual violence against women. People who claim to be anti-fascist calling for women to be “cancelled” or worse for wrongthink. People who claim to value free speech shouting women down for expressing their opinions. There’s this huge disconnect when it comes to trans issues and they just don’t see it.

I meant to say, misogynist men.

TWAW/TMAM is like telling an atheist that they have to believe in God.

I'm not entirely sure the people who react so violently are actually trans-women, I think they're just angry, sexually dysfunctional, hetero misogynists.

Agreed. In my experience trans women generally just want to live quiet and peaceful lives, not engage in activism.

JKR has sure whacked the hornet's nest. Looks like it was very deliberate too.

I consider it abusive to ask me to pretend a lie is true. I am less and less sympathetic after witnessing years of aggression, bullying and abuse. I care about women and girls' rights, I don't have time to babysit men's feelings.