Young women don't know what a woman is

[BlackForestCake]

This is absolutely staggering.

The latest poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland on the subject of self-ID, finds that all demographics in their majority believe a woman is an adult human female.

Except young women.

"The 16-34 female demographic actually voted by a narrow six-point majority that a person’s sex has absolutely nothing to do with biology. Even the next-closest group (young men) was a staggering FORTY points adrift from that view (net -34), and middle-aged women were close behind them at a net -36. Among women over 55 the margin against self-ID was a crushing 62 points (over 4:1 against), with older men at a breathtaking 10:1."

wingsoverscotland.com/abolishing-women/

Cheers 🥂

Arf. I’m onto the 🥃 now...

Women in the youngest part of that age group haven't even finished their brain development yet, and they are very inexperienced.

I think a significant part of this comes down to language issues. They've been told that being a woman isn't about biology, so they believe it, in much the same way they believe other things they are told. I was chatting to a youngish man the other day at the pub, and he was quite sure that man/woman referred to gender, and male/female to sex - that is how he made sense of it. That was what he understood as the distinction, from school, from workplace training, from the people around him.

I was never that young or that foolish...

I don't know. We only know what words mean because of social convention and what people tell us. If the people around you are all saying the same thing about what they mean, why would you argue? Especially if they are the people you've been taught to trust, and your friends?

Clearly some young people don't buy into it, but I'm not surprised that a lot do. In general I think a lot of younger people aren't rigorously examining the language they've been taught, about all kinds of things.

Yes, yes, that dreadful B-word. I think this is the word young women are terrified of; like being a bigot is the worst thing ever. We older, experienced women don't care. Call me bigot as much as you like; I'll still say that women don't have penises.

A great deal of time and energy goes in to teaching them that being a bigot is the cardinal sin.

I'm hopeful that the younger generation are seeing through this crap. My friends 12 year old was told, just before lockdown, by her English teacher that in the future sex would be irrelevant
God knows why she said it other than being bang on trend. All the girls were up in arms and said if they had babies in the future the wanted to be able to correctly say what sex they were

DS thinks it’s all about bullying and is absolute nonsense.

He’s not daft, that lad.

I was chatting to a youngish man the other day at the pub, and he was quite sure that man/woman referred to gender, and male/female to sex - that is how he made sense of it. That was what he understood as the distinction, from school, from workplace training, from the people around him.

A lot of effort has been put in by TRAs to re-educate people.
This has been happening for a long time in UK.

GIRES
www.gires.org.uk/about-us/annual-meetings/

Scottish Trans Alliance
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3829786-James-Morton-scottish-trans-alliance-quote

Press For Change
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3375587-Press-for-Change

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

He’s been stonewalled then.

I think the relevance of the answers to the other questions did the show that the women of that age group are not quite as indoctrinated as the first question leads you to believe. That is hopeful.

However I do feel some guilt because I'm quite close friends with a transwoman, and yes they are perfectly lovely.

I don't want to revoke any of my rights but I know it would crush that person to be referred to as a man. It's just a very... difficult situation.

DrEm Uncommonground Media
'Sexist History at the Heart of the ‘Science’ on Transsexualism, Part II: Robert Stoller, True Trans'
May 3, 2020

(extract)
"Many transsexuals go to great lengths to fit themselves to the prescribed body measurements and gestalt of a man-made woman’. In the same year the award winning psychologist and psychiatrist, Thomas Szasz, delineated the objectification of women when he asked
‘why should anyone (especially feminist women) object to men wanting to become women? Isn’t imitation the highest form of flattery? Precisely herein lies the “liberal” sexologists’ betrayal of human dignity and integrity: They support the (male) transsexual’s claim that he wants to be a woman — when, in fact, what he wants is to be a caricature of the male definition of “femininity.” (continues)

"I don’t believe that humans can change sex, or that children are born wrong, or that there are male and female brains, or that sex-role stereotypes are natural and innate, or that clothes are magical, or that males can be lesbians. I cannot pretend that sometimes I don’t believe these things. My beliefs and adherence to science and evidence do not alter at a whim, or whether I like a person. I treat all people the same when it comes to reality, law and philosophy built on that foundation. I don’t believe that women or women’s rights are a mental health retreat for unhappy men. I don’t believe that women and girls are fetish objects who exist to please men and that we should restructure our very definition of ourselves to satisfy a man’s sexual fantasy – autogynephilia. I think it is entitled sexism for a man to claim he ‘feels like a woman’ or ‘lives like a woman’ or ‘has sex like a woman’. Women live a variety of lives, have a variety of thoughts and emotions, a variety of hopes and dreams – the only thing that links us is our biology and the oppression we face based on our sex. I know women are fully human and deserve their human rights being upheld. I know women are discriminated against based on their sex and thus we need sex-based protections. Simply put, I am a feminist. (continues)

We have all experienced the accusation of transphobe and the social exclusion when we stated our belief in biology, this is the same. It is undoubtedly appealing to refute the allegation of transphobia by saying ‘I have trans friends’ or ‘look, a trans person agrees with me’ but this both excludes women who need us (transwidows, daughters of trans identified fathers), muddies the waters and uses other people, those claiming to be trans, for one’s own ends. No person should be used as a means to an end. The belief that women have full humanity does not have to be defended by any kind of shallow show, our ideas and evidence stand on their own. With no reasonable scientific basis transsexualism/transgenderism remains at the status of an ideology, and an ideology which is antithetical to feminism."

uncommongroundmedia.com/robert-stoller-true-trans/

current thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3900484-Dr-Em-article-Sexist-History-at-the-Heart-of-the-Science-on-Transsexualism-Part-II-Robert-Stoller-True-Trans-an-ideology-which-is-antithetical-to-feminism

Although I'm trying not to go overboard I'm a bit worried about my dad, over 70 and a former smoker, re. coronavirus. If biology isn't the only thing that matters can I tell him to just wear some lippy for the next few months and all will be (relatively) well?

It makes me so very happy to be able to discuss the fact that I don't want random penis in my changing rooms or any other places where I might be getting undressed, or they might be. Thank you so much, helpful new poster, for enthusiastically endorsing my right to be my "no cock that I didn't issue a personal invitation to" self!

They’re probably to scared to assign it to any particular sex for fear of persecution- if they identify with the wrong one!! 🙄🙄🙄

I want to be a teacher. My whole life I have felt like a teacher. I dress like a teacher, think like a teacher. However, teachers have access to vulnerable and impressionable people, and so there are checks in place to protect them - no matter how much I feel like I wanna be a teacher, have always been a teacher, even when I was a secretary at a builders, if I want to be a teacher I have to pass a DBS check.

As do social workers, priests, volunteers who work with children, carers and HCPs, sports coaches, taxi drivers, police, armed forces...... a whole range of people.

I can completely understand the viewpoint of the folk who feel they should not have to pass a test or get a certificate to just be who they are....... But if you are not transgender and yet you claim you are, then the only reasons you could possibly have for doing so are nefarious. We need checks in place, because the system is so open to abuse.

It sucks. It may seem unfair and be hugely upsetting. But do is sexual assault, voyeurism, and misogyny in general.....

What frustrates me is that not only is maleness different than the state of being a woman, but that it is the opposite of being a woman. Men and women share humanness. But the extent to which one is born male is the opposite of being born female. Every quality that defines femaleness is one that is complementary to and opposed to maleness. Every strand of DNA that contains XY is one that does not have XX. This is as real as the fact that the earth is not the sky and the day is not the night. It is a burden to be forced to lie about such a basic fact of reality to cater to anyone's mistaken notions of or wishes about his identity.

I think it's too much of a generalisation to say that all transwomen are fetishists - that only describes part of that population.

I'm hopeful that the younger generation are seeing through this crap. My friends 12 year old was told, just before lockdown, by her English teacher that in the future sex would be irrelevant hmm
God knows why she said it other than being bang on trend. All the girls were up in arms and said if they had babies in the future the wanted to be able to correctly say what sex they were

I agree. And look at the two 13-14 year old girls who were brave enough to stand up to trans ideology in schools. From what I've heard, they are spokesgirls for a whole generation of girls who are actually feeling the consequences of this ideology, are being forced to say boys are girls and share their spaces.

For earlier generations it was just woke theory; I imagine you could feel you were on the cusp of a very progressive new way of thinking and thus able to challenge old people, be a rebel. I as a young woman was just like that; the very fact that my parents' generation was shocked was enough to encourage me. I really believed I was on the right side of history, and so did my friends, back in the 60's and 70's. We had it all worked out -- in theory. Real life brought us to our senses. That's how I see this woke generation of young women.

Now that it's getting real, girls are rebelling.

That must hurt.

I agree. And look at the two 13-14 year old girls who were brave enough to stand up to trans ideology in schools. From what I've heard, they are spokesgirls for a whole generation of girls who are actually feeling the consequences of this ideology, are being forced to say boys are girls and share their spaces.

Times today
'Council ditches trans guidance on lavatories after girl’s victory'
(extract)
"A council has become the first in Britain to scrap guidance urging schools to allow transgender pupils to choose which lavatories they use after a 13-year-old girl challenged it at the High Court.

Oxfordshire county council backed down as it prepared to fight a judicial review over the lawfulness of its “trans toolkit”, which the girl said infringed on her right to privacy.

The council had vowed to contest the case, saying that it “utterly refuted” parents’ objections that it put children at risk. A judge found that the lawfulness of the guidance was “sufficiently arguable” and it could go to a full hearing.

The girl said that the guidance gave her “no right to privacy from the opposite sex”, adding that she was “worried about girls in other schools around the country who have these guidelines”. (continues)

Tracy Shaw, 46, an Oxfordshire parent, said: “I think other parents will look at what’s been achieved in this case and realise there’s a legal route for them also to challenge guidance in their counties and schools.”

Victoria Edwards, who raised more than £22,000 for the case through crowdfunding, added: “I’m pleased that OCC have withdrawn the toolkit. I’m disappointed, however, that it has taken a 13-year-old girl, a crowdfunding campaign and a High Court judge granting a judicial review to uphold the privacy, dignity and safety of Oxfordshire’s schoolchildren.”

Tanya Carter, of Safe Schools Alliance UK, which backed the challenge, welcomed the withdrawal, but added: “We remain deeply concerned at the widespread undermining of child safeguarding and misrepresentation of the Equality Act that this case has revealed.” (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/520de44a-9162-11ea-866d-11e3826964c3?shareToken=4d545ded080978910965782ba2ec7510&wgu=270525_54264_15889808398443_a49eee3b3b&wgexpiry=1596756839&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3902606-Oxfordshire-CC-withdraws-transgender-toolkit-after-girls-legal-challenge

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/520de44a-9162-11ea-866d-11e3826964c3?shareToken=4d545ded080978910965782ba2ec7510&wgu=270525_54264_15889808398443_a49eee3b3b&wgexpiry=1596756839&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278

My ss was told in school at 10 years old that some children are able to change sex because they were born in the wrong body.

I questioned whether he believed they had some magical properties. He said no the doctors change their bodies. I pointed out that its only a superficial change, they can't change sex, that's impossible.

The school seemed to insinuate that if you feel like the opposite sex then change your body with surgery, you are the opposite sex. Or maybe that is just how a 10 year-old rationalised the madness in his head.

I can't imagine how confused they will be when they are taught the real biology of sex.

rabbitwoman

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. Nobody assumes that everyone who wants to works with kids is a paedophile and yet we all have to have the DBS check - because some people do have nefarious (great word!) motives. If anyone wanting to work with kids objected to the DBS, you would have to wonder why.

My ss was told in school at 10 years old that some children are able to change sex because they were born in the wrong body.

Children are being taught this
Teachers are being taught to teach this.

Some teachers, of course, believe this.