Impressive new article by Debbie Hayton.

[Umyeahnah]

I've not been Debbie's biggest fan, but this is changing my view. Thankyou Debbie for owning your autogynaphilia, and writing about it .

The irony is I'm not sure guidelines allow me to use that word?

quillette.com/2020/02/02/i-may-have-gender-dysphoria-but-i-still-prefer-to-base-my-life-on-biology-not-fantasy/

quillette.com/2020/02/02/i-may-have-gender-dysphoria-but-i-still-prefer-to-base-my-life-on-biology-not-fantasy/

"I speak from experience when I say that it’s difficult for autogynephiles to admit the simple truth that they are simply heterosexual males who use the conceit of female self-identification as a means to rationalize their sexual attraction to a female version of themselves"

"Autogynephilia drove my own transsexualism. And I can attest that there is huge mental dissonance built up in the brain of a male who somehow is heterosexually attracted to their own body."

Is this the first time Debbie has agreed they are AGP?

(You can talk about it. But need to remain within guidelines)

Does Debbie still think Debbie deserves access to women's spaces? Because if so no amount of self awareness really counterbalances that.

Maybe they had and I missed it Datsun.In the Benjamin Boyce video they said they felt like a female from age 4, which does not really fit with AGP. This a mystery.

*tis

Does Debbie still think Debbie deserves access to women's spaces?

No they conceded that one too. Fair play, listening and learning.

I also take issue that, as a paraphilia, it's 'victimless'.

Apart from the secrecy, that Debbie attests to, resulting in deceit, one of the characteristics appears to be arousal due to the 'humiliating' nature of being a 'woman'.

'Forced feminisation' propagates the concept that being female is lesser than/degrading.

Hardly victimless.

It's certainly not a victimless paraphilia from the perspective of those married to or otherwise in a relationship with the person who has it, especially in cases where the paraphilia wasn't made clear from the beginning of the relationship.

Yeah most paraphilia are not victimless I agree. Even things like auto self- asphixiation, if the person dies.
Incidently, Michael Bailey shared in The Man Who Would be Queen that one quarter of deaths by auto asphixiation are men found dressed in women's clothing. He was discussing how paraphilias are often multiple.

Paraphilias do tend to cluster, which is another reason I side eye the idea that they're likely to be harmless - even if one is there's a decent chance that the person has others that aren't.

Then there are the narratives how compelling someone, women mostly, into treating an autogynephile as a woman, is also arousing.

Shop assistants, etc.

I wonder if Debbie will acknowledge this side of it in the end. It certainly seems to have been a journey.

Maybe being around women and the rock solid logic of gender critical feminism is responsible? Likewise Miranda.

Also saw this article and was impressed..but also astounded. Couldn't Debbie be sacked over this? If being a woman is even partially about a paraphilia, then this is like a rubber fetishist wearing latex to teach in. And if part of autogynephilia is getting subjugating women especially to accept you as female, then isn't this essentially non-consensually engaging colleagues and minors in Debbie's sexual thrills? How can that be an acceptable position for Debbie, the school or governors to hold? Or have I misunderstood this aspect of AGP?

I commend Debbie for writing this. I do think it took a certain amount of courage.

Very interesting. I commend Debbie too for writing this.

Implications for organisations who write school policies around identity and toilets etc are huge, not least as Debbie is a teacher.

I imagine there will be an argument over true trans etc; agp isn't welcome under the umbrella.

And after being able to read it without someone clambering all over me, I have to say it's very impressive, includes many key details and points. I am going to be able to share this very confidently with some key people.

Debbie is going to get flamed by the TRAs for this.

No wonder Hayton's wife looked so drained in that documentary. When your husband transitions and gets everyone to refer to them as Debbie and she it must be highly distressing. Knowing they are doing it for sexual kicks but you have to go along with it or break up the family must make it even more distressing.

Interesting to see Hayton accept their AGP, but normalising this fetish, which really requires womens non consented involvement, is a major red flag issue for me.

I do not consent

Busted - exactly. I do not consent.

And children can't consent.

Yes to previous comments. Transitioning may help with the dysphoria, but at what cost to others, and to society in general?

At what point do we say there needs to be much more research into finding treatments that do not rely on societal acceptance of something that on some levels is not really acceptable: i.e. engaging others in an activity that is, at heart, sexual. I wondered as I read the article whether this was something that should really be normalised... or indeed could be. It’s not accidental that so much effort has gone into obscuring the facts.

I can't find too much to fault Hayton with, at this moment in time. The acknowledgment that 'Debbie' has been a process, one that Debbie is still coming to terms with, gaining new understanding of is valuable to all. That Debbie is doing this on the public, with an eye on telling TRAs to shut up, is also of value to many other than Debbie.

Much as I disagree with lots of what Debbie has to say, and hate that a man's voice is heard more than any woman's, no matter how that man presents. I do think we can accept the help, the pulling in the same direction, of such 5th columnists and have meaningful discussions over our differences later!

But it really rankles that we STILL have to have such stupid bloody conversations...

The article is all part of the paraphernalia isn't it. Admitting something humiliating. Writing something that is going to get them a kicking from the TRAs.

The article is all part of the paraphernalia [sic] isn't it.

I've gone back and read it again, given that I suspect I missed something! I did! I read it with my 'be kind' head on, didn't I?

My 'understanding' is part of the kicks! Blech!

I follow Debbie on twitter. H* (Debbie calls themself that but who knows if repeating this is strike-worthy?)

Debbie doesn’t agree that they should have access to woman only spaces. They are frequently the target of twitter spats with those who do. Sounds like a level head. Yes a male voice will be heard above women (it’s the way of the world) but sometimes they have something decent to say.