Trans chat

[Babyjakesmum]

I haven't been on Mumsnet in a while, but have dropped back in to see what was going on when I heard about the sponsors dropping Mumsnet because of anti-trans hate. I expected it to be a storm in a tea cup.

But sadly, I have to say that I find the level of bitter hatred on here to be utterly breathtaking. I have trans people in my family. I have friends who have trans people, and the way they are being discussed here is simply appalling.

Being trans isn't something anyone takes lightly, or lives lightly either. It's is not mental illness, it is not an excuse to abuse children, it is not a passing fad. It is bloody hard on those who find themselves in that situation, and this sort of hate-fest of ignorance and accusation only makes their lives even harder.

I used to come on here to talk about my babies and life as a Mum, and it was supportive and safe space for me to talk openly about my feelings and experiences. It no longer feels safe for anyone. I don't think I will be coming back to be a regular again. I cannot comprehend what has become of the people on here for this level of narrow mindedness to be flourishing.

Make no mistake, I am an old school, campaigning, hard-bitten feminist, and have been since before half the people on here were born. I understand the feminist anti-trans arguments but I find all of it to be empty of any basis in reality. Trans people aren't lurking in changing rooms, trans people aren't after your kids or trying to undermine your own femininity. They are having a very hard time in life.

I know you can cite a handful of examples, but then there are always a handful of example of anything. One Karen White does not mean you write off all trans-people as criminals.

I would say to you to get to know an actual transperson and see what the reality is, except that I wouldn't want any vulnerable person subjected to this.... you also probably do already know a transperson somewhere in your life, but most don't wear a badge to tell you that because it's actually none of your business what clothes or pronouns someone chooses to use.

I understand the feminist anti-trans arguments but I find all of it to be empty of any basis in reality.

I beg to differ. The feminist argument is pro-women.

If you are saying that being pro-woman means being "anti-trans" you have nailed your colours to the mast well and truly!

No feminist ever describes their conversations as "anti-trans". They are only ever pro-women [and children].

You do know, I assume, that the person who initiated the Flora people to part with MN is the very person who (unsuccessfully) took a transwoman to court? If you'd been around a few months ago at the time of the trial, you'd have found the vast majority here supportive of the latter - who is probably very much like a lot of your friends, an 'old school' transexual.

I'm confused OP. You claim you've been a feminist since most of us were born and I know many of us (like me) were born in the 1960s and 1970s.

Yet you state: I used to come on here to talk about my babies and life as a Mum^

Mumsnet was founded in 2000, so if you had babies then and happened to be among the first posters AND you were busy being a feminist prior to the 1960s that means you would now be in your 70s or 80s say. Did you have babies then 18 years ago when in your 50s and 60s?

Something doesn't add up here.

hard-bitten feminist

You can't tell anything from the bites. You need to look in all the seams and buttons on the underside of your mattress and in all the nooks and crannies of the bed frame. You're looking for live bugs but also eggs, cast skins and faeces. The faecal spots are usually the easiest way to tell if you have an infestation - it looks like black dots made with a felt pen. If you find anything, whatever you do, don't use a fogger or a smoke bomb, they'll just run and hide and will be harder to get rid of.

Good luck, I hope you're clear of them soon x

How old is Baby Jake now?

Sorry, 19 years ago. That's two of us who got the sums wrong 🤔

Something doesn't add up here

I suspect it's the immediate and unthinking ageism.

Haha, as if you’re coming back...

She might do. She does have some posts from a few years back, including what from a quick skim seems like a good 'feministy' criticism of 50 shades of grey.
Maybe she's doing as suggested and having a read of, and think about, the transwidows threads.

AS showed some posts from 2012/13 inc one re schools. So I'd guess the OP is somewhat younger than me. Probably at the stage where she's feeling middle aged and therefore that people active on SM platforms are younger. Genuine but mistaken is my take.

I’m happy to apologise if she does.

But sadly, I have to say that I find the level of bitter hatred on here to be utterly breathtaking

Quotes, please. Because those that come on here spouting that can NEVER actually quote something someone has said.

God I had to do all that mental maths for nothing...

Mental gymnastics must be even more exhausting

Have the Thighs been biting again? Sorry OP. They’re impossible to control.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Here's a useful thread OP, to help you catch up.

I'm not sure why you think we don't know any trans people. Quite a few of us were married to them.

Quotes. Quote the supposed "bitter hatred". Quotes quotes quotes quotes quotes.

None of you can ever quote anything that supports what you try and say happen - because it doesn't actually exist on mn.

(by "you" I mean those that say mn is an "antitrans site")

I know you can cite a handful of examples, but then there are always a handful of example of anything. One Karen White does not mean you write off all trans-people as criminals.

The majority of men aren't rapists or abusers but that doesn't mean we shouldn't protect women from those who are.

Sadly OPs, these are not 'one offs' if you care to read this thread (which is still only a handful of examples the growing number of incidents).

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

Only a couple of hours ago I posted on a thread about people throwing about the empty arguments of people wanting trans people literally erased. Hey presto - OP appears with hyperbole about us thinking all trans people are criminals, etc. OP - you’re wilfully twisting what’s posted said to fit your agenda.

How very dare you disrespect my experience of having a transgender child.

Honestly, fuck this shit.

Oh fuck of with the 'no longer feels safe'.

I'd put my kids with gender dysphoria in the care of a GC feminist from Mumsnet without a care. They're not bloody sexist, they're not freaking homophobes, they understand that it's OK to be gender non-conforming, they care about long term health impacts that arise from transitioning, they have appropriate boundaries, they understand safeguarding, and they don't believe in lying about material reality.

My kids would be safe as fucking houses with Mumsnet FWR. Which is more than I can say for some people and organisations out there.

PencilsInSpace

hard-bitten feminist

So funny!!!

Not much of a trans chat if you scuttle off and don't reply OP.

I have trans people in my family

I also have trans people in my family. Sibling. Fully transitioned. Still suffering major mental health issues.

I am an old school, campaigning, hard-bitten feminist, and have been since before half the people on here were born

Not since before I was born. As my GS says, "Grandma is really old."

One of my best friends used to identify as lesbian it is now transitioning FtM. We’ve had some heated discussions - in fact we’ve always had heated discussions - but we’re still firm friends.
I want transpeople to have the same rights and respect as everybody else. Personally I’m not worried about trans women using women’s spaces (though I understand why many women are), but :

• I disagree with self ID effectively allowing any male into any female space.
• I will use the pronouns that I think are appropriate and polite, not those that some else tells me I should use.
• trans women should not take part in women’s sport.

I think the regulars on here are desensitized to the anti trans rhetoric. I can see how the OP would find it shocking if she's not been on here a while. I remember being shocked when the whole thing kicked off a few years ago.

OP there are some important issues being discussed on here. Fairness in women's sport and the ethics of trans women being recruited as rape crisis counselors for women and girls are examples of key issues that women are rightly concerned with.

Unfortunately a lot of these discussions are overshadowed with general negativity and praise of right wing activism (recently there were cries of support for Posie Parker making a video with a white supremacist) which can be very off putting. I've seen and reported a lot of vile posts on here so yes the hatred is there, but MNHQ deal with it swiftly.

I may be naive but I think 95% of posters on here wish trans people (particularly trans women) no harm and want them to be able to live their lives happily and comfortably - just not with the full status of being 'female'