Trans chat

[Babyjakesmum]

I haven't been on Mumsnet in a while, but have dropped back in to see what was going on when I heard about the sponsors dropping Mumsnet because of anti-trans hate. I expected it to be a storm in a tea cup.

But sadly, I have to say that I find the level of bitter hatred on here to be utterly breathtaking. I have trans people in my family. I have friends who have trans people, and the way they are being discussed here is simply appalling.

Being trans isn't something anyone takes lightly, or lives lightly either. It's is not mental illness, it is not an excuse to abuse children, it is not a passing fad. It is bloody hard on those who find themselves in that situation, and this sort of hate-fest of ignorance and accusation only makes their lives even harder.

I used to come on here to talk about my babies and life as a Mum, and it was supportive and safe space for me to talk openly about my feelings and experiences. It no longer feels safe for anyone. I don't think I will be coming back to be a regular again. I cannot comprehend what has become of the people on here for this level of narrow mindedness to be flourishing.

Make no mistake, I am an old school, campaigning, hard-bitten feminist, and have been since before half the people on here were born. I understand the feminist anti-trans arguments but I find all of it to be empty of any basis in reality. Trans people aren't lurking in changing rooms, trans people aren't after your kids or trying to undermine your own femininity. They are having a very hard time in life.

I know you can cite a handful of examples, but then there are always a handful of example of anything. One Karen White does not mean you write off all trans-people as criminals.

I would say to you to get to know an actual transperson and see what the reality is, except that I wouldn't want any vulnerable person subjected to this.... you also probably do already know a transperson somewhere in your life, but most don't wear a badge to tell you that because it's actually none of your business what clothes or pronouns someone chooses to use.

🙄

@Babyjakesmum - how can it be a debate if you aren’t answering any of the questions on here?

"Positive environment"??!?!??

What?

It's like the blog that said "Mumsnet used to be a hub of feeding times and diaper changes".....

No real idea of what Mumsnet ever was.

It's been called a nest of vipers almost since day one for a reason.

I LIKE the variety of tones in the variety of debates on MN. I DONT like people posting their opinion in an authoritative and chastising way and refusing to engage with any of the people who of bothered to reply to their nonsense

@2BthatUnnoticed - that is a shocking post.

Is this true - they are actually having to hand out the morning after pill in women's prisons? That is unreal - the safety of women against predatory males in prison cells should be absolutely guaranteed.

I didn't think the OPs tone on the Rhiannon Spear thread was very nice tbh, she seemed to be characterising a bit of criticism of the SNP as 'a breathtaking amount of anti-Scottish hate'.

Thank you to those who gave polite responses to my comments. I absolutely respect different opinions when they given in a calm and thought out manner.

...because you posted in such a polite and calm manner to start with? You started this thread all guns blazing and hammers swinging, posting only to berate and slur women, using false facts, illogical constructs and pure nonsense.

Have a word with yourself.

Yeah that’s why I call being a coward. Op

You gonna call it then back it up.

Don’t run off ☹️

How many people have come on this week who are singularly unable to, not just refute any argument, but address any comments?

But still say they don't like our tone.

All it needs is a young lady, and they're my dad.

1)You women are bitter.
2)Watch your tone.

If the OP deigns to come back for more, can we expect some NAMALT? We've already had the suggestion that feminists are worried about challenges to their femininity, so perhaps OP will suggest we should all try finding out which palette works best for our colouring when we are lucky enough to get hubby to babysit the kids for a while.

I have seen all these arguments before, and I just do not agree them

For Christ's sake - so you don't agree with"our" arguments - so you think male sexual predators should be able to identify as women, and be placed in women's prisons? To the extent that women prisoners are routinely handed the MAP ?

I despair. I don't think you can be any sort of feminist, hardbitten or otherwise, if you think that's ok.

I have said what I wanted to say and I am going to leave it at that.

So you just came here to be a wokescold then? Not to actually engage with any differing views, even from those women who took time to outline their concerns and politely humour you despite such a pompous opening post.

Gosh, we've never seen that before!

Both your posts smack of goady screenshot fodder, and neither give any indication that you have given any thought whatsoever to any of the subtleties of this issue and its impact on women’s rights-remember, the ones you’re always being so “hard bitten” about?

You sound the dog whistle that all we believe is that “trans people are abusers”? What a load of bollocks: women fear the impact of self ID not actually because even a few hundred THOUSAND trans identifying men may use women’s hard won spaces; it’s because 33,000,000 men in this country will have the absolute, unchallengeable right to stroll into women’s spaces and do whatever the fuck they like and you, as a hard bitten feminist and all, might just consider that a few of those 33,000,000 men might not be nice blokes, be they sporting trousers or fucking twinsets. if you genuinely have trans friends and family, stop and think of the backlash that ‘genuine’ trans are going to face when more of the bad eggs, however they identify, realise that the protections around women have been torn down and replaced with ‘Help Yourself’ signs.

OP you haven’t answered any of my reasonable questions. I didn’t think you would as I don’t think you have any. Bluntly if you can’t articulate clearly a position on the 3 simple questions beyond ‘don’t be nasty’ then there is not much point in you posting here.

Unless you come up with some specific examples OP or explain why it’s hateful to object to biological males playing in women’s sport despite a large physical advantage, why it’s hateful for women and girls to want privacy whilst changing or sleeping, or why traumatised women in domestic violence centres should have to share with biological men then I just can’t be bothered. Over to you.

This.

Also, I'm 61 and have genuinely 'been a feminist since before some posters were born - I'm going to bet I'm probably old enough to be the OP's mother.

I note she's given no actual arguments other than the tried and trusted 'you're horrid, you're just nasty to transwomen' tropes.

I would say to you to get to know an actual transperson

I was married to an actual transperson for 13 years. So I've had a front row seat, so to speak.

Your "arguments" and one liners are posted here every week. There's always a "new" appalled person telling everyone off for not being nice enough and then flouncing. Nothing new to see here.

OvaHere "wokescold", that's exactly what it is! What's the point of plopping and wokescolding anyway?

I agree totally that Karen White is a really bad exemplar. That person seems very unlikely to be trans. They're just a violent sexual offender. Nothing like any of the transwomen I've ever personally met.

SO HOW THE FUCK did Karen white who isnt trans and is a really bad example of anything end up able to assault vulnerable female criminals? How did that happen? That's the question. That's why Karen White is brought up as a 'gotcha'. Not because we think KW is trans, but because KW obviously WASN'T trans, and yet ended up in prison with women who, there but for the grace of God, are just like us.

”...a woke-scold..” - that is my word of the year, @OvaHere!