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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Trans chat

485 replies

Babyjakesmum · 16/10/2019 19:10

I haven't been on Mumsnet in a while, but have dropped back in to see what was going on when I heard about the sponsors dropping Mumsnet because of anti-trans hate. I expected it to be a storm in a tea cup.

But sadly, I have to say that I find the level of bitter hatred on here to be utterly breathtaking. I have trans people in my family. I have friends who have trans people, and the way they are being discussed here is simply appalling.

Being trans isn't something anyone takes lightly, or lives lightly either. It's is not mental illness, it is not an excuse to abuse children, it is not a passing fad. It is bloody hard on those who find themselves in that situation, and this sort of hate-fest of ignorance and accusation only makes their lives even harder.

I used to come on here to talk about my babies and life as a Mum, and it was supportive and safe space for me to talk openly about my feelings and experiences. It no longer feels safe for anyone. I don't think I will be coming back to be a regular again. I cannot comprehend what has become of the people on here for this level of narrow mindedness to be flourishing.

Make no mistake, I am an old school, campaigning, hard-bitten feminist, and have been since before half the people on here were born. I understand the feminist anti-trans arguments but I find all of it to be empty of any basis in reality. Trans people aren't lurking in changing rooms, trans people aren't after your kids or trying to undermine your own femininity. They are having a very hard time in life.

I know you can cite a handful of examples, but then there are always a handful of example of anything. One Karen White does not mean you write off all trans-people as criminals.

I would say to you to get to know an actual transperson and see what the reality is, except that I wouldn't want any vulnerable person subjected to this.... you also probably do already know a transperson somewhere in your life, but most don't wear a badge to tell you that because it's actually none of your business what clothes or pronouns someone chooses to use.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
HopeClearwater · 16/10/2019 23:49

I think this is lesson for every woman, really
Grin

Barracker · 16/10/2019 23:50

You're confused, OP. If you want to talk to the people who are concerned about something 'undermining their femininity' you'll need to find and post on a femininity forum.

This is a feminIST forum.
I know it's easy to mix up words when they look similar. But sometimes they mean very different things.

Interesting that you identify as a feminist.
I don't observe you to be such.
Perhaps you meant to identify as a #femininityist?

zebrasdontwearbras · 16/10/2019 23:50

And on another sad note - the Democrats have fucked themselves now. If they don't manage to impeach Trump, he'll be in in 2020 too. Great! Another 4 years of Trump being the most powerful man in the world. Hmm

OhIKnew · 16/10/2019 23:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

JenniferM1989 · 16/10/2019 23:54

Yes it is totally rife on here. We don't need to understand other people to be kind to them. I got shouted down for suggesting some trans people don't opt for a full sex change and hope for more rights as trans gender because they don't want to end up with potentially mutilated bits that don't work (happens a lot).

The hatred is real and some women on here and very bitter, shaming and full of hate for whatever reason.

I've always had the opinion that what you do to yourself is up to you. The only part of the trans movement I don't agree with is the loose regulations or 'rules' around it all. I think this needs to be outlined so society knows where it stands. That aside, saying things like 'what is HE doing on that list. It's a womans list, HE is a man, not a woman. Why do we have to put up with this?'. YOU don't have to put up with anything love as you'll never make it onto a list for anything being closed minded and spouting hate

UpfieldHatesWomen · 16/10/2019 23:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

zebrasdontwearbras · 16/10/2019 23:56

I doubt OP has been banned - what guidelines did she break?

ErrolTheDragon · 17/10/2019 00:01

I doubt OP has been banned - what guidelines did she break?

Yes - and she does have genuine posts from a few years ago.

UpfieldHatesWomen · 17/10/2019 00:03

Yes - and she does have genuine posts from a few years ago.
Just a thought, but if someone deletes their account, surely someone else can join and use the discarded name?

zebrasdontwearbras · 17/10/2019 00:04

Upfield - No. The name is "taken" even if you de-reg.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 17/10/2019 00:04

No that doesn't work I don't think.

zebrasdontwearbras · 17/10/2019 00:05

(Otherwise I'd still have the fab username I used to have before Jeff the Hacker made me de-reg and re-reg Hmm )

2BthatUnnoticed · 17/10/2019 00:06

zebra yes, it is in Canada. The morning after pill is available for free at Dispensary, because these are fully biologically male people and stronger than the vast majority of female inmates.

But poor OP - having to deal with (omg!) words on a site she could choose not to see.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 17/10/2019 00:07

The dipping a toe in but refusing to engage or read replies is because the posters could get "radicalised" by logic and start understanding the actual issues.

2BthatUnnoticed · 17/10/2019 00:08

And honestly- TW are welcome to “femininity” which has never been my thing .. why do TRAs think we care about “femininity?” Because they do? Bizarre.

NotTerfNorCis · 17/10/2019 00:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ErrolTheDragon · 17/10/2019 00:13

Upfield - I think you're quite new, you may not be fully aware of Talk guidelines - if you've suspicions about whether a poster is genuine then report their posts and let MNHQ decide. They can check things like how long a poster has been around even if they've namechanged.

www.mumsnet.com/info/netiquette

zebrasdontwearbras · 17/10/2019 00:13

2B - I'm just horrified. Canada (that wondrous country) has taken a serious misstep. And we're following in their footsteps.

The Quillette article too quillette.com/2019/10/12/male-bodied-rapists-are-being-imprisoned-with-women-why-do-so-few-people-care/

Why do so few people care?

Women are just told off for mentioning it at all - because transwomen aren't all like that (we know!) - but the thing is, the ones who are, are a clear danger to women and girls. But we're not allowed to say it. WHY?

Original poster
Babyjakesmum · 17/10/2019 01:44

Good grief, I'm a real person... I've name changed on here a few times, (mostly because my mother in law joined to see what I was saying,) or you would see me having posted on here continually back when MN first started, so I do know how it has changed over time.

To repeat myself, said I was old enough to be the mother of HALF the people on here, not everyone, and I am a lot older than some of your amateur sleuthing seems to suggest I'm afraid. There is such a thing as a late starter in having babies, but also such a thing as asking questions for a friend.. so don't imagine you know anything about me from finding a couple of posts.

I have broken exactly no rules on here (which is more than I can say for some of the replies, including the one suggesting I kill myself, cheers for that, plus posts suggesting I want to see children harmed, that I don't care about rape, and of course, that I can't possibly be a feminist, and suggesting that just because I prefer my discussion on trans right not to be abusive, that I must in fact be a man posing as a woman.

That's all pretty nasty, and wrong on all counts.

As it happens, my personal views on trans rights are very mixed, I don't wholly ascribe to either side of it, it's a very complex issue all round, and I don't sign up to half the view points that have been ascribed to me here, but no-one actually stopped to notice that as they piled in with accusations.

Why is it though, that the reaction here (from some not all) is to attack me personally as an individual and try and grasp at any straws you can find to discredit me as even being a real person? i haven't attacked any individual, I haven't said people aren't allowed views, I merely said that hate is harmful, and that I see a lot of it on here. And the 100+ replies I have had to 2 and now 3 posts, have just proved my point.

OP posts:
Creepster · 17/10/2019 02:04

Why is it though, that the reaction here (from some not all) is to attack me personally as an individual and try and grasp at any straws you can find to discredit me as even being a real person?

I can answer that. It is because your OP was a personal attack, so you set the tone of the thread.

tobee · 17/10/2019 02:06

This ^

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 17/10/2019 02:21

BeMoreMagdalen Grin Grin Grin

2BthatUnnoticed · 17/10/2019 02:23

Well I for one welcome your input OP.

Did you read the screen shot I posted above, and if so what do you think? Do you support dedicated trans wings (where self-Id “c*s” women can go too - if they want)?

GCAcademic · 17/10/2019 02:27

I haven't said people aren't allowed views

Very disingenuous. You were tone policing, going on about safe spaces, and accusing people of “hate”, a well-known strategy for trying to shut people up in the absence of any actual argument.

nolongersurprised · 17/10/2019 02:42

As it happens, my personal views on trans rights are very mixed, I don't wholly ascribe to either side of it,

But if you don’t believe transwomen are biological women and don't therefore welcome them into your sports, changing rooms, refuges and toilets then you are a bigot and a TERF, apparently.