Gender Dysphoria and Children: An Endocrinologist’s Evaluation of I am Jazz

[Lamahaha]

This is a very interesting article which evaluates, point for point, the book I am Jazz.

www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/04/21220/?fbclid=IwAR3rD5yqhydMeHdyaOxrXmx8c-rStXursNyZFRR0Hr6A-9C82fiP2VTev1g

I had not finished reading the article before posting this. I've now reached the point Omission 3 and realise it's an old article, as Jazz had not yet had surgery. Now we all know what a disaster that was -- this was predicted in the article.

That poor young Jazz has been sold down the river by parents, medics and the media. So sad.

Thank you for this. I watched the TV series I am Jazz because she is the literal poster child for trans young people and I wanted to see what the experience of a child who genuinely experienced gender dysphoria is. I was very disturbed to see the family dynamic and circumstances which seemed to have contributed to this and a child who seemed to be likely to have naturally grown up to be a gay male.

Placemarking

Even though it’s old-ish, it’s worth coming back to. The science and the medicine hasn’t changed, no new evidence has been published for affirmative medical therapy, and children are still undergoing such therapy, despite the very visible example of all the wrongness of it in Jazz. I feel so sorry for Jazz, it really does break my heart.

"I am Jazz" was prominently displayed at my local bookshop. I flicked through it, very cutesy and cartoony, and knowing what actually happened that poor kid, extremely disturbing.

Michael Laidlaw seems to be a good man. I used to follow him on Twitter before they kicked me off. The article is worth re-reading, especially in light of his predictions being shown to have been correct.

There's a couple of striking things about this article.

I have googled Michael Laidlaw his digital footprint seems to be almost exclusively talking about trans issues, and speaking against best practice.

Jazz Jennings is a good example of why he may not be a good voice to promote.

Jazz, has been suffering documented gender dysphoria for 13 years.
Jazz has not desisted. Jazz is happy.

Jazz had surgery which many said puberty blockers would rule out.
She has had successful surgery, with a minor complication, prevalent in up to 40% of all types of surgeries.
Jazz considers the surgery to be successful.

A trans kid diagnosed at 5, affirmed in their gender, given puberty blocker, received surgery, according to best practice.
And despite the usual ups and downs of teenage years, not least being on camera.... she is clearly thriving in a way many claimed would be impossible, including Mr Laidlaw in the past.

I would take with a pinch of salt, personally.

One other obvious example I would highlight is that in his field, endocrinologists interpret the twin study differently to him, he is a minority in his belief.

The twin study, whilst true that only a third were both trans gender in identical twins.
There was no increased incidence at all of both twins being transgender in non-identical twins.

A third of identical twins both being transgender is actually statistically HUGE, which points to some level of biological, genetic involvement in the formation of atypical gender identities.

Can you define what you view as 'best practice' Lisa? Some links would be good.

And do you honestly think a child can be diagnosed as transgender at 5 years old? Really?

And Lisa, please explain why you think a child with a physically healthy body having massive amounts of medical and surgical intervention which makes them sterile is better than letting them go through puberty naturally and have a complete and functioning reproductive system and healthy sexual organs which will allow them to have a healthy and fulfilling life as an adult.

Jazz believed themselves to be a girl based on their families beliefs re what that means
Jazz family makes a living from Jazz, that makes it very hard for Jazz to critically analyse their thoughts and beliefs
Jazz does not have a fully developed brain ditto above
Jazz dies not know what Jazz has lost. They have never had a sexual feeling and believes that all girls want is to be treated like a princess
When Jazz was 'regressed to a past life' Jazz saw themselves as a gay man walking through a town with people laughing at them. I think the regression is bollocks but some sad insights there
Jazz still suffers depression
IMO Jazz is a tragic figure and at some point will realise what has been lost

And despite the usual ups and downs of teenage years, not least being on camera.... she is clearly thriving in a way many claimed would be impossible, including Mr Laidlaw in the past.

Of course Jazz is thriving -- on screen. This is reality TV after all and they are promoting a certain outcome. That means the outcome HAS to be positive. ANything else would be catastophic fot the parents. A mother who has supported early hormone treatment and surgery cannot possible allow any doubts to surface.

Somehow I doubt that Jazz is truly thriving.

Never mind reality, even from what the 'Jennings' choose to show we know Jazz suffers depression and eating disorders, has no libido at all, has had genital surgery which has been horribly botched and is extraordinarily immature for Jazz's age.

'Thriving' is not a word appropriate to use about a young person with so many documented problems.

You've got to be kidding, LisaVito.

Michael Laidlaw is an endocrinologist.

Jazz has been sterilised and does not have a sex drive.

I really hope that Jazz is happy and continues to be happy (and I really hope Jazz does not get osteoporosis in her early twenties), but there are young people and their parents who are being influenced to go down the same route by Jazz's "perfect" life and Dr. Laidlow is right to point out the inaccuracies of this account.

a child who seemed to be likely to have naturally grown up to be a gay male.

Can we really even say that? Telling a kid they are supposed to be interested in boys their whole life could easily have an effect, especially once you've suppressed normal sexual development.

'Thriving' is not a word appropriate to use about a young person with so many documented problems.

Jazz has had an artifical hole made in their genital area which is supposed to mimic a vagina, the only function of which is to provide pleasure to males and which can never birth a child and needs to be dilated every day for the rest of Jazz's life.
Jazz seems to want to get married to a man will have serious problems finding a life mate as the vast majority of men, according to recent polls, aren't interested in transwomen as sexual or life partners.
We can really only speak of thriving when we know the long term outcome. Ten years up the road will bring us more information. I am not terribly optimistic, though I wish them well.

Hi Oldcrone, do I believe you can diagnose gender dysphoria at 5 years old? Well I think the last 13 years of Jazz's life is testament that you can, she has been unwavering in her gender identity.

Before I made the last post I researched a bit of Jazz and where she is now. She seems very happy and satisfied with the surgery.

Sometimes the descriptions of surgery can be brutal and over sensationalised, 90% of surgery can be described using brutal language, after all it is surgery.

Jazz has gone through what a lot of transwomen do, there is nothing so outlandish or unusual.
It can be a long and difficult journey going through surgery for transwomen, and this board is right to highlight how brutal and gruesome it can be, and probably explains why some would choose not to go down the surgical route.

On balance I think it's fairly obvious Laidlaw is out of his depth when it comes to trans issues, as Jazz exemplifies.

Jazz has never had an orgasm and no libido whatsoever Her “vagina” needs more surgery. I wouldn’t class any of this as a successful outcome.

Lisa In order to be diagnosed as transgender, would you agree that a person would need to have a comprehensive understanding of how their sexed body affects their life? The most important component of this would be around their sexual and reproductive function, since these are the only ways in which men's and women's lives are truly different. How much understanding of these aspects of their bodies do you think a 5-year-old would have?

Every time trans surgery is performed, they risk a loss of sensation and the ability to orgasm.
That goes hand in hand with surgery.

I'm not sure if people are advocating for trans woman to have surgery or to not have surgery.

These are standard issues for trans women to deal with, this is part of the difficulty they all go through, but it's a case of priorities.
And their individual priorities are likely to be difficult for other people to understand.

Jazz's gender identity has been unwavering, trans people are simply doing the best that current medicine allows to help alleviate the physical element to gender dysphoria that Jazz suffers as best they can.

Worth remembering, Jazz is one of many thousands of trans kids worldwide who are actually very happy and thriving.

Hi oldcrone, I think a gender dysphoria diagnosis in a child is an attempt to separate the kids most likely carry those feelings into adulthood.

We can only guess at the exact various lexicons in use and methods to reach the diagnosis, some of which aspects. I suspect we will agree and disagree on.

But certainly, the aim of the Gender Dysphoria diagnosis, and the method has been vindicated entirely.

What about treating the dysphoria, instead of advocating surgery?

I think a gender dysphoria diagnosis in a child is an attempt to separate the kids most likely carry those feelings into adulthood.

How would you know that? Many lesbians and gay men have said that they wanted to be the opposite sex when they were children, and are glad that this 'treatment' wasn't available then. How would you separate the 'transgender' children from those who would grow out of the dysphoric feelings?

Thing is, Jazz had, and continues to have, no idea of just how much she has lost. The decisions she has made, or that were made on her behalf, were done without her being aware of the full facts.

How can a little child decide that they are happy never to have a fulfilling sex life as an adult?