Gender Dysphoria and Children: An Endocrinologist’s Evaluation of I am Jazz

[Lamahaha]

This is a very interesting article which evaluates, point for point, the book I am Jazz.

www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/04/21220/?fbclid=IwAR3rD5yqhydMeHdyaOxrXmx8c-rStXursNyZFRR0Hr6A-9C82fiP2VTev1g

How can a little child decide that they are happy never to have a fulfilling sex life as an adult?

And please answer this question, Lisa.

They're treating the dysphoria & advocating surgery when the necessary criteria have been met, which I would assume Jazz did.

To separate trans kids from gnc kids relies on an understanding of the different presentations, into forensic increments. Which would certainly overlap most medical timelines in respect to understanding new conditions and presentations not well documented.
Things will naturally improve, which hopefully they have been.
In this instance Jazz displays the right principles were put in place in my opinion, and for what its worth.

I would think Jazz's sex life is her business, and as many trans adults make exactly the same choices as soon as they are 18, maybe the question of a sex life comes at a much distant second, to the turture of gender dysphoria.

Some may say it gives us an insight into how traumatic it can be a for trans person that almost nothing else matters in the search to alleviate the dysphoria some of them endure.

Seeing as Jazz and her family have made the whole story very public with a tv show and news interviews since Jazz was 5 I think the case for privacy is lost. Jazz's sex life is relevant as this child has grown into a. Teenager without experiencing sexual pleasure and it's highly unlikely that this will change now Jazz has reached adulthood. It should be Jazz's business but sadly it has been made everyone's business, worldwide.

I saw one episode which showed Jazz at home recovering from the first surgery. I saw the size of the dildo that Jazz has to use to dilate the wound. It is way, way beyond what is a normal size penis. Jazz has been exploited and will suffer so much in the coming years when the cameras have long since left.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=SsBczOiOq9M

Jazz Jennings talking on her tv show about her sex life🤔 but we are expected NOT to discuss this as its her business 🤔

If you want a private life it’s a good idea not to make a reality TV programme about your private life.

It blows my mind that anyone can look at Jazz and see a success story
If Jazz hadn't been sold the lie that only girls can like certain clothes or act in certain ways they would have never believed they were in the wrong body
It is cruel to tell children they are wrong because of their likes and dislikes. And abusive, IMO, to make a child's life so public for cash

Every time trans surgery is performed, they risk a loss of sensation and the ability to orgasm

I don't have the greatest sex drive in the world, but losing it deliberately seems a dramatic thing to do. I would certainly miss sex and orgasms.
I would also miss the chance to have children, and iirc this surgery makes one infertile.
At age 5 no one would know the consequences of this path.

Would you say liposuction is an appropriate treatment for anorexia, then, Lisa? And those who wish very fervently to be amputees, should have healthy limbs amputated?

How is a five year old being set on an inexorable path of 'affirmation' to life-shattering surgery considered a success? This is a tragedy playing out in front of our eyes.

I would think Jazz's sex life is her business, and as many trans adults make exactly the same choices as soon as they are 18, maybe the question of a sex life comes at a much distant second, to the turture of gender dysphoria.

Lisa are you really saying that a 5-year-old is capable of making an informed decision about their future fertility or ability to have a normal sex life?

Every time trans surgery is performed, they risk a loss of sensation and the ability to orgasm
And that is bad enough for adults who have chosen that path.
The problem with transing children is that when puberty blockers are taken, the teenager never reaches sexual maturity so has no idea what they are missing out on. The loss of sexual function is permanent. Undeveloped genitals cannot be surgically altered to create anything remotely satisfactory. There is no loss of sensation or ability to orgasm because there never was any sensation or ability to orgasm in the first place. They are facing a lifetime of sexual dysfunction.

No child can ever be considered able to make that decision at the time when they start puberty blockers. They are far too young to understand

Jazz has talked about their depression, no libido or sexual function, their complications with surgery and the lack of a romantic partner.

There is nothing about Jazz's transition that I would describe as successful. Even if Jazz is still fully convinced that they made the right choice - they never had a full understanding of their choices.

I don't have the greatest sex drive in the world, but losing it deliberately seems a dramatic thing to do. I would certainly miss sex and orgasms.

I wouldn't, I don't (miss sex and orgasms, having been a widow for a very long time). A fulfilling sex life has always been a low priority for me; finding a partner who loved me truly, and whom I could love, was always in first place. Also:

I would also miss the chance to have children, and iirc this surgery makes one infertile.

This exactly.
At age 5 no one would know the consequences of this path.

At 5 I was -- I can't even remember. But even at 15 I had no idea what I would be or what I wanted and was incapable of making decisions that would tie me on a certain path for the rest of my life. Nobody is capable of such decisions.

And yes, perhaps young people are euphoric when they finally get the body they always wanted. But in my experience, as soon as one strong desire is fulfilled, and the initial euphoria dries up, the next great desire comes in to replace it.

I doubt we are getting the full story on "happy" kids who have transitioned. When they find out, as they inevitably will, that they are not, after all, the opposite sex, and that members of that sex do not accept them as identical -- that's when the depression will really set in.

Warning red lights should be flashing. Instead, it's just a huge come on.
It's Pied Piper syndrome.

To separate trans kids from gnc kids relies on an understanding of the different presentations, into forensic increments.

What is a 'trans kid', Lisa? What do you think makes a child transgender? A child who is too young to understand what 'sex' really means in terms of sexual activity and fertility.

”What is a 'trans kid',”

Good question Crone. We need to stop using this rhetoric. There is no such thing as a “trans kid”.

There are children with dysphoria and/or delusions that they are the opposite sex. Transitioning is sometimes used as medical and/or surgical treatment for this condition. “Being trans” is not a mental status.

I would say a trans kid is understood as a person of minority age who meets the diagnostic criteria for Gender Dysphoria (dsm) or Gender Incongruence (ICD).

Thats how the medical community would define and establish it.
Those that have met the criteria and been prescribed blockers or cross sex-hormones have been overwhelmingly more likely to experience that diagnosis into adulthood, suggesting the right candidates received the right treatment.

Thats how the medical community would define and establish it.
Those that have met the criteria and been prescribed blockers or cross sex-hormones have been overwhelmingly more likely to experience that diagnosis into adulthood, suggesting the right candidates received the right treatment
Will those in the medical community hold up their hands when all this blows up?
Will they say 'lessons will be learned 'will they care at all about a generation of infertile people, will they care these adults will never orgasm, will they pay the price?

OK Lisa, this is what the NHS says about gender dysphoria in children.
www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms/

Gender dysphoria behaviours in children can include:

- disliking or refusing to wear clothes that are typically worn by their sex and wanting to wear clothes typically worn by the opposite sex
- disliking or refusing to take part in activities and games that are typically associated with their sex, and wanting to take part in activities and games typically associated with the opposite sex
- preferring to play with children of the opposite biological sex

These are about stereotypes, and do not require medical treatment. I don't understand why anyone would think they would require a medical diagnosis or medical treatment.

- insisting they're of the opposite sex
- disliking or refusing to pass urine as other members of their biological sex usually do – for example, a boy may want to sit down to pass urine and a girl may want to stand up
- insisting or hoping their genitals will change – for example, a boy may say he wants to be rid of his penis, and a girl may want to grow a penis
- feeling extreme distress at the physical changes of puberty

Psychological treatment might be appropriate for some of these children. They might also be signs that the child has been sexually abused.

Any of the so-called 'gender dysphoria behaviours' might indicate that the child will grow up to be gay - this does not require medical treatment.

There is nothing in any of this that indicates that there is such a thing as as 'trans child'.

Those that have met the criteria and been prescribed blockers or cross sex-hormones have been overwhelmingly more likely to experience that diagnosis into adulthood, suggesting the right candidates received the right treatment.

There is some evidence that taking hormone blockers 'fixes' the transgender identity, because about 80% of children grow out of their gender dysphoria by they time they have gone through puberty if they're not treated with blockers.

Just think what that means. Out of 100 children, only 20 of them would still identify as transgender after puberty if they weren't treated with hormone blockers. If the 100 children are treated, all of them retain their transgender identity.

Psychosexual Outcome of Gender Dysphoric Children

It’s grotesque, what has been done to Jazz’s body. Jazz has been castrated, is sterile and will struggle with adult, sexual relationships due to no libido and no sexual function. Jazz’s sexual partners will be limited to those men who are ok with shoving their penises into a surgically created hole whilst aware that their sexual partner has no sexual feeling.

This will not end well.

They're treating the dysphoria & advocating surgery when the necessary criteria have been met, which I would assume Jazz did

You see therein lies your problem. They treated the dysphoria with treatments that lack any evidence whatsoever they are the correct treatments for the dysphoria.

You can’t look at Jazz and say it was a success because it’s perfectly feasible Jazz could have been allowed to go through puberty, retain sexual function and fertility AND had her dysphoria successfully managed in other ways.

I would also add LisaVito’s posts show the incredibly poor short term view like so many others. How many surgeries does Jazz need to have before the experiment is considered a failure? If Jazz has a stroke aged 35 from the increased cardiovascular risk from oestrogens will it still be considered successful because the dysphoria was “treated”? What about a heart attack in her 40s? If Jazz develops breast cancer, a known risk also, will that be considered just part of it (casual shrug) or an iatrogenic condition?

This is not over. Jazz is not a success.

I would have to disagree with that interpretation old crone.

As I said I believe, as do the medical establishment, that the number of trans kids who went onto receive blockers or hormones were the ones most likely to persist, after all checks and balances.

There is very little data in recent years on trans kids, and methods and diagnostic criteria have improved.

You refer to the older studies I think when you say 80% desist, what the latest data tells us is that our understanding is growing.
The stats about so many kids on blockers/hormones persist, is evidence that we are understanding how to eliminate the 80% who would have desisted. We are no longer picking these kids up as trans kids, but more likely to pick them out as GNC kids and signposting them away from the standard or best practice pathway for 'Trans' youth.

I feel so sorry for Jazz. She has been badly let down by those who should have protected her.

And thanks for the link OP. I'll keep in handy should my DC's school decide to use the book.

NotBadConsidering, I would say it's a bit early to make such grave predictions.

April Ashley is trans and in her 80s in good health, despite spending a lot of time on less safe, and experimental hormone therapy, I don't think it helps to speculate on what might happen.

Almost all speculations about Jazz thus far have been proven unfounded.

They are speculations because no one knows the outcomes of experimental treatment and surgery. You equally can’t proclaim Jazz as a “success”. Jazz is only 18 and has already had multiple surgeries. Complications which were predicted in the article in the OP two years ago. So what do you mean by “unfounded”?