Gender Dysphoria and Children: An Endocrinologist’s Evaluation of I am Jazz

[Lamahaha]

This is a very interesting article which evaluates, point for point, the book I am Jazz.

www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/04/21220/?fbclid=IwAR3rD5yqhydMeHdyaOxrXmx8c-rStXursNyZFRR0Hr6A-9C82fiP2VTev1g

Jazz is on record as picturing a different life as a gay man.

Given Jazz's own words, I don't know how anyone can be certain that Jazz 'is trans', as opposed to 'has lived under a feminine identity for years'.

Reflecting on current practice and assessing it critically is no bad thing.

I can't imagine the pressure to carry on being Jazz that Jazz has experienced. I know it was hard to tell my in-laws about wanting a divorce as I didn't want to upset anyone, that's minor compared to having a TV series based on you conforming to a particular identity.

And we're talking about a child here.

I can only see the whole situation as abusive.

Its not that complicated, Jazz presented with a condition validated and accepted within medical science as Gender Dysphoria, and is now a trans woman.

Jazz has said on record multiple times she is happy and satisfied with her surgery. They are also Jazz's words.

There are thousands of trans kids, and trans adults who were trans kids also extremely happy with both transition and surgery.

I get it, lots of people on here have 'opinions' however Jazz and other trans kids are, and will always be the most important opinion, and the opinion of experts treating them.

As somebody said earlier in this thread, there is a desperation to paint Jazz as the archetypal trans kid who is a disaster....... that is so completely off base, on every level....

I have no idea how people formulate these opinions, unless there's an agenda.

There are thousands of trans kids, and trans adults who were trans kids also extremely happy with both transition and surgery.

And there are also detransitioners who aren't/weren't happy with their transition and/or surgery.

Jazz has never experienced sexual desire because Jazz has gone through puberty.

Jazz is under a lot of pressure to minimise any problems with Jazz's surgery.

For comparison, I never mention my problems with bladder control to anyone but my partner. Things are often not spoken about publicly.

Is that really the depths of somebodys GC argument to attack the suffering of a child and suggest the emotional turmoil and distress as a well-documented symptom of Gender Dyphoria, was not real probably because of tutu's??

I keep saying the phrase well documented evidence. Where is the link, please? What criteria did Jazz meet?

*seeing not saying

Jazz is 18 years old and the surgery is very recent.

Perhaps we should wait until Jazz has some experience of life before we should conclude the treatment is successful.

Indeed what evidence there is, tends to suggest euphoria following such treatment, but that in the longer term, the benefits become much less clear.

So the true answer is that nobody knows whether Jazz’s transition is a medical miracle or a nightmare waiting to happen. But what we can be certain of, is that Jazz has undergone radical treatment with serious life-long effects at an age where Jazz is unlikely to be able to grasp the consequences.

I would suggest if anybody had a semblance of decency that post would be deleted. It's offensive and puerile.

Asking to see evidence that a child of five has gender dysphoria, and why they have it, is offensive?

No, it isn't. Just to be completely clear.

Nor is it 'puerile' (perhaps that's not actually the word you meant?)

Parents wanting to know why children are being sterilised, becoming lifelong medical patients, having no sexual function, potentially dropping eight IQ points and having the mental maturation of an 11 year old forever, isn't, um, 'puerile'.

Oops should proofread, Jazz has NOT gone through puberty.

Jazz has had an unwavering gender identity since she was a child, this is well documented, on her medical records, and is stillpresenting with the same gender identity as an adult.

Could you explain what you mean by unwavering gender identity? You can use as many words as possible. If you can't explain it, can you link to what it is, and how it manifests?

Jazz has said on record multiple times she is happy and satisfied with her surgery. They are also Jazz's words
Anybody actually asked jazz about this in a confidential manner, off camera, someone she trusts who isn't a parent or the family relying on jazz to bring in the money?

This actually reminds me a whole hell of a lot about the schofields. Jani and bodhi the most schizophrenic children that ever were. Despite no other children being diagnosed at such young ages. And of course now completely disproved.

They were trained to act out, coached to answer questions the "right" way, gaslighted into believing they were the most schizophrenic children ever born etc. It was called munchausen by proxy, it's got a new name now though. The Schofield parents did it for money too.
I can see many similarities here.

Even the little bits of video that have been shared on this thread show that 'I Am Jazz' is massively scripted and the family are clearly told what to talk about and how to say things.

There is nothing natural about that conversation between Jazz and their grandma, and there's certainly nothing normal about Jazz talking on that chat show - it's pretty obviously all pre-written talking points/soundbites and Jazz would absolutely have been told in advance what they were going to be asked and been given advice from their team on what to say in response.

None of it is off the cuff - typical 'reality' TV fodder.

Its not that complicated, Jazz presented with a condition validated and accepted within medical science as Gender Dysphoria

Excuse me?

Gender dysphoria (as we now understand it) is a subjective state of mind, by its very nature it has to be self diagnosed.

It is dreadful to feel so separated and repulsed by your own body, and everything should be done to help people understand why they are having such difficulties, so they can attempt to resolve them or at least be able to live more successfully with their dysphoria.

There is nothing that can medically or scientifically prove it. We can't test for gender dysphoria and there is no test for being 'trans.'

Gender dysphoria can come on extremely rapidly - and it can also disappear equally rapidly. For some people it appears to be a defensive response to a traumatic experience.

As far as children are concerned, we need to practise extreme caution if they are showing signs of feeling ill at ease with their sexed body. We need to allow them to dress as they want, play with the toys and friends they want and express themselves exactly as they want.

No one is born in the wrong body. The body cannot be wrong - it just is. We need to try to understand the reasons why someone's mind is telling them otherwise. Not medicate them and put them through the most horrendous surgical procedures.

I refuse to be emotionally manipulated and gaslighted over this.

The fact that practitioners believe that an individual feels dysphoria is not the same as it being validated and accepted within 'medical science.'

"They're treating the dysphoria & advocating surgery when the necessary criteria have been met, which I would assume Jazz did.

To separate trans kids from gnc kids relies on an understanding of the different presentations, into forensic increments. Which would certainly overlap most medical timelines in respect to understanding new conditions and presentations not well documented.
Things will naturally improve, which hopefully they have been.
In this instance Jazz displays the right principles were put in place in my opinion, and for what its worth."

Personally I would have stopped engaging with you here.

You have said absolutely nothing here. This is 100% waffle.

Although I might use this one from now on when I want to low-key troll.

In my opinion, and for what it's worth.

Good one.

Slight derail but I came out as GC on twitter about March last year, and soon found myself signposted to FWR, so most people here have been at this a lot longer than me.
So it's just an impression, but it seems to me that I am seeing more and more de transition stories and experiences, many young women but some men, not all young. I don't remember seeing any this time last year.

Anyone else noticed a change in the wind?

So LisaVito doesn’t return to the thread.

mobile.twitter.com/joss_prior/status/1166825969623154688

Now we have a brand new poster magnolia31 posting the same things as LisaVito. And someone is linking to the thread on their Twitter feed:

mobile.twitter.com/joss_prior/status/1167106066833915904

I don’t know why people play silly games. I have a very simple question for Joss:

Jazz Jennings has never, and will never have an orgasm: is this a good thing or a bad thing in your eyes?

Who told the infant Jazz that dresses were for girls. According to Jazz they were 2 years old when they undid the poppers on a romper suit to make a dress
Children should not be told they cannot wear certain clothes or play with certain toys because they are only for girls/boys
This is a man made condition. You can see how a young mind will come to believe they are the wrong sex because their likes are wrong
And to play it all out in public is disgraceful

Definitely more de-transitioners speaking out Fanny.

Cari Stella was one of the first detransitioners I came across - she made me cry because she spoke so eloquently and with such raw truth.

I'd credit the Pique Resilience young women with really kickstarting a larger public discussion. And of course Ben (gnc-centric on Twitter) who speaks and writes fearlessly about her experiences. Carey Callaghan is also excellent.

But yes, there are many of them now - and I admire each and every one for having the courage to share their thoughts publicly. It's extremely brave and helps us all learn and understand so much.

The detransitioners' stories are sobering. They should be a lesson to everyone that gender identity must be questioned and these young people supported to learn to love their bodies as they are and see the stereotypes for what they are.

So let me get this straight, every trans woman who isn't exclusively attracted to men is AGP, using the rules of Mumsnet FWR.

Jazz, identifies as pansexual, thus according to MN is an AGP

And now the users of this board have tied themselves into such knots, they pretend they care about an AGP's sexual gratification?

Right?

SisterWendyBuckett

almost everything you have written about gender dysphoria is codswallop, trust me as a trans woman, you are out of your depth on this issue.

Jazz, identifies as pansexual, thus according to MN is an AGP

No, you’re missing the point.

Jazz isn’t anything sexual - no libido, has never had an orgasm and never will due to being prevented from becoming naturally sexually mature and then castrated.

Stop pretending that Jazz’s transition has rendered them a fully functioning sexual adult. Jazz has no libido, no orgasms, infertile.

Joss, answer the question:

Jazz Jennings has never, and will never have an orgasm: is this a good thing or a bad thing in your eyes?