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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bunbury’s Public Service Announcement 3.1

999 replies

GirlDownUnder · 12/08/2019 13:44

The useful Bunbury Guide to Spotting Community Disruptors is constantly evolving.

The best research and advice is not to engage with community disruptors and trolls. As ever, if you suspect troll activity, report it to MNHQ.

This is a continuation of the first Public Service Announcement thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3438714-Bunbury-s-Public-Service-Announcement-2

Thread 3 was deleted with this note from MNHQ; We're sure there will be a Bunbury 4 around soon, but we'd be grateful if we could draw a line under the issues raised in this thread if there's to be a new one.

If and when you see threads plopped into FWR, especially a curious repeat of well worn topics, maybe check for poster history before engaging.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads that are reproduced on Twitter or Facebook to foment controversy using screen shots & flagging to either MNHQ to have threads or posters deleted. Sometimes, it’s used to approach commissioning editors with ideas for articles. It’s a tiresome tactic that we’ve had several community disruptor posters who themselves post the comments that they then highlight elsewhere as purported evidence of racism, religious intolerance, anti-men sentiments, or transphobia.

Some helpful links can be found in the first posts on thread 2 (linked above) but in essence FermatsTheorem recommended “that in the absence of a block/hide poster button, I suggest the following strategy (given that you're talking to the lurkers).

Do not name check the sealion. Instead, respond to a depersonalised paraphrase:

"It is sometimes erroneously suggested that blah. Blah is wrong for the following reasons (short and pithy). If you need more information re. debunking blah, here's a link."

Then (this next step is important to combat derailment) go back up thread to the last useful contribution to the discussion, make sure you do name check that contributor, and pick up the discussion from that point.”

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
ErrolTheDragon · 11/09/2019 10:41

Maybe she's been targeted for that reason by 'monitors'? Not only a doughty defender or women's rights in those areas, but also proof on other matters that debate is possible, alternative opinions aren't silenced?

ZuttZeVootEeeVro · 11/09/2019 10:43

The only people I can imagine wanting to get rid of Lass are the pro porn, pro women's exploitation lobby.

This.

Its shocking that mnhq can't see it. It's actually extremely worrying.

Harriettenightingale · 11/09/2019 10:44

Lass/Marguerita and I disagree on almost everything except porn and prostitution. We've had a good few snotty exchanges hereabouts.

What she is not is a bloody community disruptor. She's an MNer.

This. I 100% don't want her to go.

Datun · 11/09/2019 11:28

Bloody hell lass. On what possible basis did you get an email?

The skirt thread was rather bizarre. It evolved as a forensic dissection of people's viewpoints. With that one poster digging their heels in, in the teeth of their argument collapsing around them.

That's all there was to it. I've seen more acrimony on virtually any other board on the site.

Please don't disappear on the basis of umbrage with HQ.

You're not a gender critical feminist, but you're an incisive, intelligent poster, with stuff to say. Particularly with regards to porn and prostitution. Your voice is a vital part of that discussion here.

I have no idea why HQ are doing this. The interest in the site, and this particular board, will wane if it's not engaging, informative and topical. Debate dies if people aren't interested in it.

Anodyne, banal threads run to two posts, if that.

Stay Lass.

Deliriumoftheendless · 11/09/2019 11:34

Lass has a different opinion to most posters here, but argues her side and holds no grudges (and none are held against her I think).

That is exactly what debate should be and exactly what should be occurring on FWR.

Lass should not go. (But understand why you want to).

TruthOnTrial · 11/09/2019 11:39

FWIW, theres a thread running about allowing men to stay overnight on maternity wards right now. A lot of support for the men, who are being defended because they are acting as medics and saving lives, therefore women will die if the are not allowed in their space to wander around in their fucking pants and piss all over the womens toilets

I find the moderation too narrow minded, and good posts and posters are being culled.

A forum is only as good as its moderators.

I have been finding a lot of threads recently where those actually doing the blaming and attacking (out of TGs with abusive stuff) being the ones who celebrate decent posts being deleted, and yet that post, which basically talks about the deleted post, isnt deleted!

I was recently accused on a thread that I'd arrived late to, and contributed to, of being the OP and that I was a troll. I had posts deleted, no explanation and all my reports ignored. Later on I reported them all again, and they were all deleted, but I still have deleted posts against me! Why ignored first time? I could have gone down on that thread.

This has been happening a lot.

TruthOnTrial · 11/09/2019 11:41

*I find the moderation, at times, extremely narrow minded and simplistic, other times I think the broader picture is taken into account and a more considered response received.

...is a better refelction of my experience

JessicaWakefieldSV · 11/09/2019 11:46

The thing is if you’re on your final warning there isn’t much point staying when you believe you weren’t breaking guidelines in the first place, as you’ll only get another strike and be banned soon enough anyway. I got a final warning and suspension because I told 2boys he was a narcissistic liar, despite several other posters calling him a liar and him goading and writing totally ridiculous things. It genuinely feels no different to Facebook, which I also left in disgust.
It’s just too hard to speak when you’re not sure what you’re allowed to say anymore. Such inconsistent moderations means we behave based on what remains and what’s deleted, and then get strikes anyway. It’s almost like they’re doing it on purpose.

Now I really will leave you all to it.

TruthOnTrial · 11/09/2019 11:50

In the past I have seen MN comment on threads that the OP, or any given poster has been long time poster, seems genuine, etc.

Many on the thread I was talking about were reporting and requesting this, and MN locked the thread and said they couldn't comment on who anyone is?! Anyone could be anyone?

I've been travelling these boards years and years on and off, through much, and yet I could be considered a troll, or be douvle posti g from different accouts?

I really think there needs to be a validated or verified poster who has history with MN, or completed additional steps etc. Very much like the verified sale type flag on selling sites reviews

2BthatUnnoticed · 11/09/2019 11:51

Oh no Marguerita, don’t go!!

Your input is valuable and I have never seen you breach the guidelines. Also, none of your posts (that I’ve seen) would offend TW, which is what most people get banned for.

So who is reporting all Marguerita’s posts?? Was is because of that skirts thread? Since when is a robust discussion reportable Angry

I’m still getting over losing LassofFyvie. If Marguerita goes it will be a real loss.

RufusthebewiIderedreindeer · 11/09/2019 12:12

People deleted for bless and yawn...should i add sweetie to that list

ErrolTheDragon · 11/09/2019 12:23

No, the 'sweetie' post stands. No idea wtf the deleted post could have been.

2B, are you any the wiser as to why those posts of yours were deleted?

I don't think it's surprising modding isn't entirely consistent, they're only human - but if deletions are going to result in bans then people really do need to be provided with clarification and/or a second opinion.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 11/09/2019 13:07

Oh no Lass/Marguerita you will be missed if you go, I hope you don't but can understand why you'd want to.

WrathoSWhlttIeKIop · 11/09/2019 14:42

Lass has always put her viewpoint across perfectly without being rude or personal.

Her contributions are often spikey but they are welcome here because it challenges us.

I am very surprised of the ban.

Melroses · 11/09/2019 15:40

So who is reporting all Marguerita’s posts?? Was is because of that skirts thread? Since when is a robust discussion reportable

It happens to all identifiable posters at some point. They become very visible to anyone watching the boards. Either they keep namechanging and end up lost amongst other posters, or they become targets for outside reports.

Mumsnet is in effect allowing itself to be moderated from the outside by people who make no valuable input to discussion. Contributors such as Marguerita give a lot to the boards and make it interesting to lots of other people and would-be contributors. This is what gives Mumsnet a high profile brand name.

They need this if they are to maintain advertising.

Floisme · 11/09/2019 15:47

This is far too late to be helpful but I was conscious of a vibe throughout the skirt thread and it wasn’t just because of the derailing and fixation with genitals. At one point my not-particularly-interesting posts were getting bolded by the same poster and I had a bad feeling and stepped back. Wish I’d said something now.

RosesAndRaindrops · 11/09/2019 16:06

Eh? I was (briefly) on that thread, and didn't see anything reportable?! Confused
Robust argument between differing posters, but isn't that the usual way on some threads on here?
Surely can't be because of that Confused
Was interesting thread as I was agreeing with posters on there I usually disagree with lol

RosesAndRaindrops · 11/09/2019 16:07

Crap, posted too soon - that was supposed to say over Margurita being warned, I mean WTF if so unless I've missed something.
Wot's going on

ErrolTheDragon · 11/09/2019 16:14

I did wonder - and this may be a reach - whether certain people would be particularly keen to take Lass out of play at the moment following the German Nordic Model vote. I don't necessarily mean anyone who was posting on that Brighton thread.

RufusthebewiIderedreindeer · 11/09/2019 16:36

It might not have been the skirt thread that did for her

Its just ridiculous...banning someone like lass

Maybe it is the prostitution thing, dunno

BarbaraStrozzi · 11/09/2019 16:50

Another one saying "what the hell could Lass/Marguerita have done that's bannable?" She is stalwartly anti porn and anti prostitution. Not much else I agree with her on. But she is unfailingly polite, albeit robust in her arguments - which are always interesting and worth thinking about, if only to challenge oneself to come up with decent rebuttals.

Seriously MN, what is this about?

(Also on the maternity wards thread - blimey, there's some shocking "not my Nigel"-ing going on, and the usual accusations of man hating if you dare to point out the bleeding obvious, which is that if 1 in 4 women suffers DV at some stage in her life (which they do), then there's going to be a fuck of a lot of violent partners out there, which means that your chance of meeting one in shared space on a busy maternity ward is... pretty damn high).

birdsdestiny · 11/09/2019 16:53

Ffs. That is a real loss. I am usually sceptical about conspiracy theories but that has to be linked to prostitution/porn. Marguerita is always spot on about womens bodies as commodities, must be irritating for some people.

ErrolTheDragon · 11/09/2019 17:43

Jumping before she's pushed rather than a ban at this stage - but given the fact she's good at defending her views, not thin skinned, I'm boggling that a missive from a mod could cause her to do that.

RufusthebewiIderedreindeer · 11/09/2019 17:47

The missive has obviously pissed her right off

I did say to myself when i joined that if i had a post deleted cos i was mean then i would leave

That lasted right up until i had a post deleted for being mean

KatvonHostileExtremist · 11/09/2019 17:49

I mean lass you're blunt, and often I disagree, but I admire your honesty. A valuable member of mumsnet i think.

What a shame