Isn't Helen Webberley still prevented from providing services in UK?

[LoveGrowsWhere]

Because she's being quoted as an expert in this article.
inews.co.uk/news/puberty-blockers-transgender-rights-nhs-gender-clinic-uk-tavistock/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

I'm in no way qualified to speak about the rise in presentation amongst young girls

No that's clear.

It isnt just girls
The findings by Professor Carl Henghan & the Safeguarding whistle blown concerns by professionals who have worked at NHS Tavistock GIDS also affect boys (under 18 years old)

BMJ
The development of these interventions should, therefore, occur in the context of research. Treatments for under 18 gender dysphoric children and adolescents remain largely experimental. There are a large number of unanswered questions that include the age at start, reversibility; adverse events, long term effects on mental health, quality of life, bone mineral density, osteoporosis in later life and cognition. We wonder whether off label use is appropriate and justified for drugs such as spironolactone which can cause substantial harms, including death. We are also ignorant of the long-term safety profiles of the different GAH regimens. The current evidence base does not support informed decision making and safe practice."
blogs.bmj.com/bmjebmspotlight/2019/02/25/gender-affirming-hormone-in-children-and-adolescents-evidence-review/

BMJ

"Regulated medical practitioners should follow a framework of evidence, not simply respond to client expectations. Creating that evidence to inform quality standards is an ethical imperative. We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles" (continues)

www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4490

I think you underestimate how much of sexuality (especially fetish) is in the mind!

Blanchard’s theory is actually quite complex, i was annoyed by Contrapoints’ over simplification in the AGP video (I can’t be AGP, I’m not exclusively attracted to women! 🙄) and the latest one (‘Shame’) is a text book guide to the AGP mind whilst never even mentioning the word!

I think that less gatekeeping means new presentations, AGPs are transitioning younger, for starters.
Anyway, I doubt you have much in common with a typical Reddit knee-socks-cat-ears ‘egg hatching /traaa poster. They just tell us to die in a fire.

For what it’s worth Stats I don’t think you wish me or my child harm.

I don’t think you and I are the same and I don’t believe my daughter has the same condition as you, although the symptoms do manifest similarly.

I’ve had lots of HSTS acquaintances over the years, (some of whom I have adored) and I don’t believe HSTS pose the same risks to women as AGPs (although there are some vicious HSTS queens out there, especially in the media world!).
HSTS are generally the people that the average woman on the street thinks kindly of (although those I have known aren’t nearly as pathetic and in need of protection as modern trans activism seems to suggest).

The problem is, the door was opened by April Ashley and Christine Jorgensen and Karen White and Jessica Yaniv pushed through it.
Now women want to draw new boundaries and there is no way to write a law that lets you in and keeps Zoe Lyons out.

Rachel McKinnon urges kids like my daughter to run away and join a ‘glitter family’. Monroe Bergdorf invites minors to private DM discussions. Our kids are being groomed and creepy doctors like Webberley, who smash through gatekeeping and safeguarding protocols, are part of it.

And doctors like Zucker, who tried to proceed cautiously with gender distressed kids are hounded out of their jobs by adult transactivists and get falsely accused of sex crimes on telly by a hysterical Shon Faye

This documentary was shown once and then pulled due to the outcry:

vimeo.com/217950594

I wish I could find that Zucker/Faye clip, but I suspect the names aren’t on it so it’s hard to search for!

Dr David Bell (adult Charing Cross GIC) talked a bit about figuring out the ‘something’ on the professional panel at the MCR detransitioners event:

The sound quality is bad so you can’t really listen while doing other things, sadly!

The relevant bit starts at around 26 minutes. We could do with a transcript really.

DuLANG

You're right, I wish you no harm, especially not by fire. Different opinions and experiences can only drive understanding. As for posing a risk to women you're right they're not my thing in that way.

We're definitely not the same, I'm assuming (big assumption I suppose) that you are female, I'm not. That said, I bet we share a massive amount of DNA similarities. As for your daughter, it's going to be difficult but I'm sure you'll support whatever turns out to be right.

The safety and boundary debate makes sense and I've said before I think as a trans person there are currently more important hills I could climb. That said, there isn't a section of society that I would support being legislated for or against based on the actions of a few outliers like Karen White. I don't condone urging kids to do anything though apart from don't put your hands in the fire and always look left and right at least twice.

Professional panel at the MCR detransitioners event

Report of the event from Feminist Current
(extract)
" [David] Bell even finds the terminology “puberty blockers” to be “targeted,” as it sugar-coats what he describes as “potent drugs” that are inevitably accompanied by additional consequential effects.

“The body isn’t like a video recorder that you can just put on pause,” he said.

[Dr Hannah] Ryan expressed empathy towards her fellow researchers. She said they are battling “immense pressure” to alleviate the suffering of patients struggling with dysphoria and affirm patients’ gender identity without question or intervention. Hutchinson, who worked in GIDS for five years, noted that clinicians can be accused of transphobia for merely “talking about evidence.”

“But how can it be transphobic to ask for better standards of care for this client group? I want better standards of care for kids with gender dysphoria,” she said, to loud applause.

Another former GIDS employee in the audience claimed that medical experts face both external and internal pressures. Most feel prohibited from talking about the possibility of desistence and detransition entirely. Bell agreed: manoeuvrability to investigate and conduct research on desistence seems almost impossible when the trans movement “has penetrated into clinical services,” and cannot be questioned, challenged, or exposed. Bell said the extent to which gender ideology has “the ears of politicians right up the highest level” as well as control over much of the media was remarkable. “It has sort of gone through unquestioned,” he said. O’Malley considered that this has only served the best interests of “non-experts” with a lot of social media followers, essentially allowing them to “lead the room” and act with impunity." (continues)

www.feministcurrent.com/2020/01/09/detransitioners-are-living-proof-the-practices-surrounding-trans-kids-need-be-questioned/

I just wanted to clarify - I have no problem whatsoever with trans care being funded by the NHS - I have a problem with doctors who've been deemed unfit to practise being supported by the NHS. People with dysphoria and trans identifying people deserve the same quality and standard of care as anyone else - I'm always a bit surprised that anyone would be willing to put themselves in the hands of doctors who've been struck off.

Found it!

Pretty sure our girl’s sudden cross sex identity is driven by distress at puberty, lesbophobic bullying in school, social awkwardness, a rejection of the ‘orange girls’ (fake tan) femininity in school combined with the trauma of almost losing her little sister to a rare cancer-like immune disorder. She was then catcalled by an adult man for the first time age 13 and started wearing two sports bras at once, passed out in PE and was sent to the school counsellor who suggested she might hate her breasts because she’s non binary or a transman. She looked up JammiDodger on YouTube and now she wants a double mastectomy.

She’s never been forced into gender roles or expected to conform to any particular visual standard (we’re an Addams family) and she’s always known trans people existed (one of my husband’s best friends is married to a very glam, very striking, but way too tall to be female TS) so her sudden revelation isn’t due to only just learning about trans people.

For her, the gender distress is sincere, but it’s more like an eating disorder or self harm via cutting. She doesn’t believe she is a boy, or was meant to be a boy, she just doesn’t much like how growing into a woman is going. She believes she’d be happier if people assumed she’s a boy.

Who can blame her? Puberty is shit for pretty much everyone, including the ‘orange girls’ who are just wearing a different mask.

If she’d been really GNC her whole life and come to us age 21+ saying she wanted to transition, we’d probably have been scared for her future but accepting. Same if we were living in a different era.

I think the ‘something’ is probably lots of things combining to a perfect storm, one of the things might be a generation of teenagers who are seeing hardcore porn online before they even reach full sexual maturity. A lot of it is fucking terrifying, who would want to grow up to be a woman if it means being subjected to stuff like that? And you can’t protect them from it, even if you have controls on their devices and your home internet, some of the other kids won’t.

In my day all you’d seen at 13 is a few pages from a discarded copy of Razzle, found in a bush. That was so long ago that the women actually had bushes (overdue a comeback, imo).

Just out of interest, how does one say "own goal" in a gender friendly way?

Just out of interest, how does one say "own goal" in a gender friendly way?

That's the sort of question that last time I answered it at this time of night, got me a strike 🤭

NHS Tavistock GIDS service is being taken to Judicial Review by Keira Bell (backed by parents & professionals who have worked within the area):

"Ms Bell's legal team will argue the centre's approach was unlawful because:

1)children could not give informed consent for this kind of treatment and

2)the potential risks of treatment were not adequately explained"

Dr Helen Webberley has been outspoken in her criticism against what she felt was the too cautious approach of the NHS service.
Dr Helen Webberley's online business 'Gender GP' was for a long ime promoted by Mermaids Charity.
Gender GP has (& presumably) continues to treat children (Under 18 years)

The findings from the JR will, one presumes, have impacts for theDrs Webberley & Mermaids childrens charity?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3836481-AIBU-about-transgender-person-taking-legal-action-against-NHS-for-allowing-her-to-transition-title-edited-by-MNHQ-on-OPs-behalf

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3804872-Keira-Bell

That said, there isn't a section of society that I would support being legislated for or against based on the actions of a few outliers like Karen White.

But stats, that’s how safeguarding works.

We know the vast majority of adults wish no harm towards children but we can’t identify the tiny minority who do, so we have safeguarding based on that tiny majority.

We know the vast amount of men are not rapists or murderers but we can’t identify the tiny majority who are, so we gatekeep women’s spaces - backed up by legislation, e.g. the EA2010 - based on that tiny minority.

And similarly we know most transpeople are perfectly nice people just wanting to go peacefully through life but we can’t identify the tiny minority who don’t - complicated by the fact that self-ID potentially brings in those in the second group too - so...you get where this is going?

When I applied for my current job, I had to have a DBS check. I didn’t think “how dare they, don’t they know how law-abiding and harmless I am???” I thought “oh, they’re thorough, that’s good.”

Actually to be fair, it’s not even that we’re considering transpeople a separate group. It’s TW who are/would be legislated against, because they’re male and therefore automatically fall into the second group. The only change is that before vocal and extreme trans activism started stirring up trouble, women would mostly turn a blind eye to MTF transsexuals quietly using our loos. But I’m afraid the TRAs are losing you that privilege - and it is a privilege, not a right - because of their unsafe and unreasonable demands.

I will add, it’s been a pleasant change to engage with a transperson who doesn’t resort to screaming misogynistic invective at us for disagreeing with them and who does recognise that they are still male, so thank you for that stats.

We get some lovely trans people posting here actually. And it makes me sad for them that the ideology is actually damaging for them. I'd never really been forced to analyse my views and where I thought it was sensible to draw a line until I was told to "educate myself".

Children, transsexuals and vulnerable women are all put at higher risk of harm to validate an ideology and it makes me desperately sad

(Obviously “tiny majority” in my first post above should read “tiny minority”.)

women would mostly turn a blind eye to MTF transsexuals quietly using our loos. But I’m afraid the TRAs are losing you that privilege

I made a similar point the other day when Robin popped in to tell us off. Women had no issue with TS using female facilities, but you sat back and did nothing when the TRAs started making demands and threats to women and stomping all over our boundaries. You were supporting them back then so dont complain when you get caught up in the pushback now.

Just to add I was talking in a general 'you' not directed at anyone.

because of their unsafe and unreasonable demands.

And to loop this thread back on topic, those unsafe and unreasonable demands include paediatric transition and medical treatment via ‘informed consent’, which is bonkers when there are no diagnostics!

I’m middle aged, perimenopausal, and round here you have to practically crawl into the GPs begging and crying to even get a blood test for possible HRT treatment - you most definitely cannot get HRT for menopause via informed consent! Which is fair enough because it does come with elevated cancer and DVT risks.

On the other hand, women generally only take it for limited periods, 1-10 years, whereas paediatric transitioners starting cross sex hormones at 16 could be on it for 60 years! That’s not something anyone should take on without even a face to face visit with a doctor.

The only change is that before vocal and extreme trans activism started stirring up trouble, women would mostly turn a blind eye to MTF transsexuals quietly using our loos. But I’m afraid the TRAs are losing you that privilege - and it is a privilege, not a right - because of their unsafe and unreasonable demands.

The 'extreme' trans activism has been causing 'trouble in terms of detrimentally impacting Safeguarding & women's sex based rights for decades.
It simply wasnt as visible as this was happening behind closed door; lobbying policy makers or lobbying families, especially women & children.
No doubt the level of connectedness in our world has magnified both numbers & voices bringing more to awareness.

Family
www.peaktrans.org/not-woke-my-experience-as-the-child-of-a-trans-individual/
childrenoftransitioners.org/2019/11/26/reading-christine-benvenutos-sex-changes/
makemorenoisemanc.wixsite.com/mysite/post/a-plea-for-help-for-feminists-from-a-trans-widow

Policy makers:
AngryAttackKittens wrote:
"I'm going to point every "but the nice, harmless old school transsexuals whose movement has been unfairly appropriated by the nasty transgender people" person to this thread from now on.

All the same elements we're seeing now were there in that old BBC roundtable from the 70s with the 4 transwomen, the politician, and the doctor. None of this is new."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

I’m middle aged, perimenopausal, and round here you have to practically crawl into the GPs begging and crying to even get a blood test for possible HRT treatment - you most definitely cannot get HRT for menopause via informed consent!

Nor can younger women who have had hysterectomies due to gyny cancers.
It will take MDT meetings, testing of tumours, in depth discussions about the potential risk/benefit & a consultant who will even consider it. Not all will & GPs usually won't get involved.

aside from the sudden side effects of surgical menopause, significant increased risks for younger women in such situations include osteoporosis, heart disease etc

but you sat back and did nothing when the TRAs started making demands and threats to women and stomping all over our boundaries. You were supporting them back then...

Many trans rights activists were/are transsexuals.
Women's boundaries have been disregarded by some (whether TS, TG or Dr) in pursuit of trans rights for decades.

OnlyTheTit

I understand where you are coming from with regards to safeguarding and trans people working with vulnerable groups such as those who work in healthcare, social services and law enforcement are all subjected to the same enhanced DBS checks as everyone else. Once you have a record even without a conviction you will have a file on the PNC. For most it's hard in these circumstances to hide a trans history. Even upon a name change and possession of a GRC the new name will only ever be recorded as an alias on the PNC with your original name or name given upon arrest (file name) being the main name on the file. For me, the answer to getting around anyone lying on a DBS is to subject everybody filling one out to a finger print check and DNA swab. Of course there is always someone who has never offended before but then in this particular case we are getting into the realms of legislating for what you might do? Everyone who has been arrested should have their prints and DNA profile on file. I believe many police forces do this for their officers and staff anyway as a way of their SOCO easily eliminating them from a crime scene.

I'm personally just not comfortable with altering wide ranging legislation based on outliers. Imagine if we banned all middle aged white middle class male drivers due to their propensity for driving home from the pub in the shires because the chance of seeing the police are negligible?

Personally, I can't say I have a huge need to use single sex spaces but, I do believe in them and understand that there is a need for them. I believe the answer is to ensure there are alternatives available. I wouldn't be seen dead in a public changing room unless it had single lockable cubicles and many public places I visit have accessible toilets. In fact there is a great one (if a toilet can ever be great) at the top of the stairs in Victoria station (The London one) that is labelled accessible/gender neutral. Since they were done up this one is always very clean. I do on occasion use the ladies if I'm caught short but, public toilets I generally avoid as I'm a bit OCD about cleanliness. But, I donworry that history suggests compelled third spaces don't often work out well for the minority concerned. It's very easy to demonise a minority with a few well placed stories about the minority of bad ones amongst them. Male violence is a huge problem but, this debate can often give the impression that the problem is trans people in general. In the mean time some men are continuing to rape and beat their wives at home in huge numbers, touch women (including trans women) inappropriately on public transport with little or no consequence to them and seemingly getting a free pass as the spot light is on trans women. Rather than preventing men offending against women, having a wide ranging legislation against trans women can demonise a small subset of people without having the intended effect. It can start with spaces and given the right conditions move on to identity badges and it tends to go down hill from there. It's a difficult one and I understand that my personal circumstances mean that my opinion is not likely to main stream on this thread but, it is only an opinion and I wouldn't be caught making any demands.

In the mean time some men are continuing to rape and beat their wives at home in huge numbers, touch women (including trans women)

And now the TRAs want to give these violent men a way in to womens safe spaces so they can continue to abuse women.

I appreciate that a transsexual is seeking to be recognised as the opposite sex and that people noticing that they are not that sex is difficult to deal with. It is one of the reasons why I do not think that transition is a good idea until all other options have been exhausted. However, one of my big problems with the whole thing is that we are perpetuating the idea that being a transwoman or transman is something that should be hidden. It appears that the reason for this is fear of discrimination and/or shame if the truth is discovered. This idea is reflected in Goodwin and the GRA. The way found to deal with that discrimination/shame was to allow people to legally change sex and legally to hide their past.

Surely we should be aiming for a situation where transsexuals are accepted as what and who they are, with the concomitant understanding that for transsexuals it is appropriate to use pronouns of the opposite sex and to treat them as the opposite sex (whatever that means in a particular circumstance), except when to do so conflicts. One good thing about the current climate is that we are creating a generation that is much more accepting of difference, gender non-conformity and transpeople (it has just gone off in a crazy direction) and we should be much better placed to aim towards eradication of prejudice and discrimination. It just seems to me sensible to aim for a situation where no-one has to hide, lie or use tortuous language, but transsexuals do not have to worry about having their gender dysphoria unnecessarily exacerbated by being referred to/treated as their birth sex.