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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Isn't Helen Webberley still prevented from providing services in UK?

259 replies

LoveGrowsWhere · 06/08/2019 10:43

Because she's being quoted as an expert in this article.
inews.co.uk/news/puberty-blockers-transgender-rights-nhs-gender-clinic-uk-tavistock/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

OP posts:
statsgeek1 · 05/03/2020 18:46

DuLANG

I'm not sure that class C drugs are only accessible in the UK? Most trans people travel just fine apart from a the odd rude encounter with the border people in the US who can be overly fond of th odd intimate search. Perhaps that's a consequence of Trump/Pence and their MAGA thing.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 05/03/2020 18:48

My point is you cannot freely travel the world with a class c stub stance in your backpack.

QuentinWinters · 05/03/2020 19:05

I'm a trans woman who dates men
Ah, got it. I can believe you are subject to a lot of homophobia then. It must be very difficult.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 05/03/2020 19:10

And the experience of a HSTS male is going to be completely different to that of a ROGD female.

Webberley was prescribing testosterone, a class c controlled substance to a 12 year old natal girl.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 05/03/2020 19:16

So you do agree that it is better to avoid medical transition if at all possible?

PaleBlueMoonlight · 05/03/2020 19:22

It was years ago that I read about or listened to the transperson (or possibly desisted) who talked about how transition had really limited them in other areas of their life. The travel problem sticks in my mind, but there is also a general reduction in quality of life by being dependent on medication and having to continually be involved with the medical community. That is something that most of us want to avoid. It may sound small, but when it starts with puberty blockers in your teens and continues for... then that is quite a drudge (and that is, of course, before dealing with the medical problems that may be induced by the medication).

PaleBlueMoonlight · 05/03/2020 19:22

*desister

WeAreGerbil · 05/03/2020 19:34

For me, because no matter how hard i tried i could not come to terms with my own body. I do think being able to do so would have been easier but I couldn't.

Lots of us have to come to terms with our bodies though. I have one that doesn't let me do the things I used to love and could kill me at any moment. Why is gender dysphoria different?

R0wantrees · 05/03/2020 19:37

I also think to infer that they are villains rushing vulnerable adults into unregulated care with untested medicines would be quite wide of the mark and stems from an attitude that positions being trans as always the undesirable outcome. They follow well established pathways common to other developed countries.

What's clear (from this thread at least) is that the currently suspended Drs Webberley & their unregulated online clinic have some very loyal patients/customers.

The same was true for Russell Reid

Wiki
"In 2006-2007, Reid was investigated by the General Medical Council (GMC), the regulatory body for doctors in the UK. A serious professional misconduct hearing opened following complaints brought by four doctors from the main NHS Gender Identity Clinic at Charing Cross hospital, west London, and some of his former patients. It is alleged that he breached international standards of care, set by the Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association (HBIGDA) by inappropriately prescribing cross-gender hormones to patients and referring them for sex reassignment surgery without adequate assessment.

Britain's primary lobbying organization for transgender and transsexual people, Press for Change, was quoted as saying that Reid received support during the process from more than 150 patients as well as additional experts in the area. Ultimately, the enquiry found Reid guilty of Serious Professional Misconduct, mostly for failing to communicate fully with patients GPs and not documenting his reasons for departing from the HBIGDA Standards of Care guidelines sufficiently. However, the panel "determined that it would be in the public interest as well as your own interests if you were to return to practice under strict conditions." and allowed him to return to practice, subject to some restrictions on his practice and hormone prescriptions for the next 12 months.

Reid was a member of an expert committee set up by the Royal College of Psychiatrists to draw up new UK care guidelines on the treatment of Gender identity disorder" (continues)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Reid

Russell Reid was also supportive of the amputations of healthy limbs for patients identified as having 'body dsymorphia' & seeking the operation.
This was ruled unacceptable/unethical practice by NHS (2000)

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 05/03/2020 19:46

The Wirral Gender Support Service has just been suspended.

Announcement from the horses mouth on Reddit

Isn't Helen Webberley still prevented from providing services in UK?
statsgeek1 · 05/03/2020 19:46

DuLang

I can't answer that then, you'd need a trans man to tell you of any problems with their travel and as a HSTS my experience is only my own.

Quentin

Hormone therapy and surgeries made sure that is no longer so much of a problem but, on occasion it happens. I prefer to describe it as stupidity as oppose to homophobia, I feel for them. Being so angry must be hard.

Paleblue

Not if you have gender dysphoria but, I do agree that not having dysphoria is likely to lead to an altogether more comfortable experience although, life is fraught with all sorts of difficulties for everyone so you just never know. P

WeAreGerbil

The simple answer is, I don't know. I'd love to know why but, I suspect in the 50 or so (if I'm lucky) years I'm likely to have left I won't find out. I've gone beyond the point where it causes me to lose sleep.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 05/03/2020 19:48

And then there was Dr Curtis, of course:

www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/06/transexualism-gender-reassignment-richard-curtis

R0wantrees · 05/03/2020 19:56

Guardian 2013 linked above

'Doctor under fire for alleged errors prescribing sex-change hormones
This article is more than 7 years old
Dr Richard Curtis is under investigation following complaints over treatment of patients seeking gender reassignment'
(extract)
"One patient allegedly underwent surgery within 12 months of their first appointment. He is also accused of administering hormones to patients aged under 18 without an adequate assessment, and wrongly stating that a patient seeking gender reassignment had changed their name.

One of the most serious cases concerns a female patient who regrets switching to a male role. She underwent hormone treatment and had her breasts removed. The woman is one of the complainants in the current GMC investigation.

Other cases include patients who were allegedly prescribed hormones at age 16. (continues)

That case divided transsexual experts and support groups. It was brought after complaints from four psychiatrists, two of whom were colleagues of Reid at the Charing Cross hospital gender identity clinic, and one of the patients.

Curtis took over Reid's private practice in Earls Court, west London, in February 2006. In a press release issued in November 2005, Curtis said: "I will be practising according to the Harry Benjamin Guidelines but will treat each case sensitively and advise according to an individual's specific circumstances much in the same way as Dr Reid."

Harry Benjamin was hardly a model of medical ethics though was he?

PaleBlueMoonlight · 05/03/2020 19:59

So you are saying that medical transition is a good outcome for anyone with gender dysphoria, whatever the cause of the cause of that dysphoria?

Sorry, I am not trying too be difficult, rather that this For me, because no matter how hard i tried i could not come to terms with my own body. I do think being able to do so would have been easier but I couldn't suggests that you would prefer to have been able to come to terms with your own body than to medically transition.

Perhaos, in fact you are saying that everyone with gender dysphoria is transsexual and for everyone who is transsexual the only way to alleviate the symptoms is medical transition? It might seem like I am labouring the point, but I am really trying to understand your position.

R0wantrees · 05/03/2020 20:06

The Wirral Gender Support Service has just been suspended.

Announcement from the horses mouth on Reddit

Regardless of the reasons for dismissal, there is plenty in that to indicate issues with professional boundaries, Safeguarding & ethical practise.

koshkatt · 05/03/2020 20:35

Despite a few wily people, TRAs seem to have a bizarre need to champion the very worst aspects of their religion's practice, thereby sawing off the branch they're sitting in. It's so odd.

This.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 05/03/2020 20:40

Despite a few wily people, TRAs seem to have a bizarre need to champion the very worst aspects of their religion's practice, thereby sawing off the branch they're sitting in. It's so odd.

This

So good it’s worth repeating again!

statsgeek1 · 05/03/2020 21:08

paleblue

For me, medical transition isn't an outcome, it's the vehicle that lets some, not all arrive at a position where they feel comfortable or at least a lot more comfortable than before. I personally don't really know what the cause of my dysphoria was, I don't suppose I ever will. I suspect it's likely a mixture of exposure to certain levels of hormone during gestation and my social interactions with the world but, I've learned not to let it take up too much of my time, it's caused enough trouble already. I couldn't say whether I'd have preferred it not to be this way as i have no real way of knowing.

I wouldn't say there's one way to treat the symptoms of GD or a best way to treat GD but medical transition has worked for me. A bit like pain scoring, I started off at 10 I'm now at about 2 or 3 and feel reasonably healthy and fit for my age so it hasn't been too bad. I'm sure some can achieve the same through limited physical presentation or just HRT but, if there's a hard way, I'll find it.

A bit DuLang and others have mentioned above though, I'm sometimes a bit surprised at the hills certain people pick to die on or branches as they put it. There are far more worthy causes to fight for trans wise than ones that risk losing what has been a level of trust with a natural ally for what I consider personally to be very little gain.

R0wantrees · 05/03/2020 21:12

An example of this is that (as I have said before) Gendergp has and still offers shared care agreements with NHS doctors. My Testosterone and hormone blockers are provided by the NHS on an NHS prescription (not private private prescription) with the guidance from the team of specialists at Gender GP who monitor my hormone levels and ask my NHS GP to adjust my levels accordingly.

This description by Cw19752 is very concerning.
Clearly Cw is a loyal patient/customer of the Drs Webberley (both currently suspended by the GMC) whose unregulated online business Gender GP relocated to Spain after being successfully prosecuted in UK.

threads
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3598778-Dr-Helen-and-Dr-Mike-Webberley-matters-of-public-record
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3625515-Patient-of-webberlys-commits-suicide

statsgeek1 · 05/03/2020 21:29

My understanding from what I can read From what is that Jayden was desperately unhappy about his situation commenting that he couldn't go on because of his feelings and distress. Reports suggest he waited two years to see a specialist at GIDS before passing the age limit and being referred on to the adult service where he expected to then wait up to another four years for an appointment. Six years with very little help is not a nice prospect especially as a teenager. They suggest in desperation he turned to the W's and was prescribed a cross sex hormone. I'm not a coroner but I'd struggle on the basis of those reports to attribute the cause of death as being driven by the cross sex hormone treatment. That's not to say that there were no questions to answer.

For what it's worth, I'm tax payer funded and I've never been a patient of the W's.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 05/03/2020 21:32

I’m pretty much having the same conversation with two MTF transsexuals simultaneously across two threads (although the other person has denied that HSTS/AGP is a thing so I’m guessing they are AGP).

For clarification, the thing many of our daughters are currently facing is not the classic ‘transman’ presentation of GD (which is thought to mostly be the female version of HSTS, although it’s less two groups and more of a continuum in female people). Many of Webberley’s patients will be the kind of young woman described below. They should not be diagnosed via Skype and sent testosterone in the post.

I’m copying the following over for the attention of Stats

If you only read one thing on ROGD, make it this one, written by GIDs employees (I know it’s on WPUK, but despite the rumours, WPUK are actually very MTF transsexual friendly, it’s why some feminists criticise them - they get it from both sides, basically)

Extract:

Crucially, it is important to acknowledge, that girls and young women have long recruited their bodies as ways of expressing misery and self-hatred. Bodies become the site onto which they can project their perceived failure to live up to society’s expectations of them and also their internal, psychic pain. Psychic pain that arises out of the manifold implications of being a suffering human being: trauma, abuse, neglect, bullying, social ostracism, bereavement to name but a few. Also, for some, the fear of leaving childhood behind, the terror of female adulthood, is overwhelming.

It is not unreasonable to hypothesise that developing gender dysphoria, and alighting on a trans identity as the way of understanding, can, in some instances, be the solution (cure) to the ‘problem’ of being born female. It could be the ultimate act of self-harm. A form of self-harm hardly noticeable to many because it is so aligned with the disavowed but ever present attack on gender non-conforming women that exists throughout society.

We cannot ignore the role of the internet in this; whether cyber bullying, competitive instagram, exposure to pornography, sexualisation or the associated phenomenon of a sort of social and collective influencing. We know that there is a parallel world of on-line engagement where children and young people are engaging globally out of sight of any mediating influence or alternative explanation for their distress.

Whatever influencing factors, both exogenous / social and endogenous / psychological, there might be these are all happening within the wider context of the decimation of local child and adolescent mental health services (CAMHS) over the last decade. We are seeing a generation of young people emerge who have been poorly served by local specialist provision: a phenomenon recognised and documented here.

In the clinical setting we have become familiar with narratives, especially in younger children, resting almost entirely on the most superficial of signifiers: toys, activities, hair, clothes, a certain aesthetic upon which effectively the (self) diagnosis of trans is made, and a social role transition affected. Unfortunately these tropes are compounded and perpetuated by some “diversity” trainings delivered in schools.

womansplaceuk.org/2020/02/17/the-natal-female-question/

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 05/03/2020 21:34

womansplaceuk.org/2020/02/17/the-natal-female-question/

R0wantrees · 05/03/2020 21:44

Transgender Trend
"A full investigation is hampered by a political narrative which casts these girls as brave transgender youth, free at last to be their authentic selves through greater awareness and acceptance of transgender people throughout society. No proper inquiry can take place while the government is in thrall to a powerful transgender lobby which dictates the lens through which we must view these girls and frames anything else as transphobia. The only answers we will get will be by examining the referral rates of girls within a context of adolescent girls’ mental health. We must ask the question ‘why are so many girls unhappy and distressed about being girls?’

Behind these statistics are individual, vulnerable children. If one single case demonstrates the need for an inquiry, it is the tragic suicide of one such girl. The background of the case of Jayden Lowe is typical of the troubled cohort now coming forward to the Tavistock." (continues)

www.transgendertrend.com/surge-referral-rates-girls-tavistock-continues-rise/

These whistle blown concerns are a matter of public record & an inquiry is long overdue into the care of vulnerable young people by both NHS & private medical practice:

February 2019
"The true histories of “highly disturbed or complex” child patients were not properly explored by Gids clinicians struggling with “huge and unmanageable caseloads” and afraid of being accused of transphobia if they questioned the “rehearsed” surface presentation. The report says the concerns voiced by staff are shared by Sonia Appleby, who is in charge of safeguarding at the trust."
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3509817-Times-16-2-1-9-Staff-at-trans-clinic-fear-damage-to-children

statsgeek1 · 05/03/2020 21:55

DuLANG

I'm in no way qualified to speak about the rise in presentation amongst young girls. A rise in general presentation could be explained some way by more people willing to come forward but with the girls it's clear something else is at play. It would be interesting to see how the incidence of those referred moving onto treatment compares with boys? I'd hypothesise that something else is at play and the majority will not go on to treatment. What is concerning is what is at play? That the rate of increase has started to taper off is also interesting suggesting that maybe a particular factor(s) were present between 2014 and 2016 that could relate?

As for the AGP/HSTS theory, both exsist. I would say I'm technically HSTS but I think things are much more complex than that. What I do struggle with understanding though is that if an AGP is driven by a sexual desire which is driven by testosterone, wouldn't the sexual desire just go away on administration of an anti androgen which kills testosterone (especially if a Gnrh analogue is used) ? It would most certainly not be present in the same way if at all post orchiectomy/vaginoplasty. I believe one if not a couple of prominent trans GC characters have recently disclosed their AGP status. That can't be nice for their families. Perhaps they'll elaborate sometime?

OldCrone · 05/03/2020 22:06

maybe a particular factor(s) were present between 2014 and 2016 that could relate?

I am Leo was first shown in 2014, featuring Polly Carmichael telling children that puberty blockers were a 'harmless pause button'. This may have had something to do with the increase in numbers of girls presenting as trans.

www.transgendertrend.com/uk-cbbc-childrens-tv-i-am-leo/

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