Keira Bell

[MarieIVanArkleStinks]

I'm not sure whether this issue has been debated on this board, as I haven't been posting/reading here for a few weeks. But the story is here:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/22/former-transgender-patient-tells-court-sex-change-clinic-putting/

and here:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7926675/Witness-court-battle-against-gender-clinic-reveals-happened-cry-help.html

TLDR: The Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust, which runs the UK's only gender identity development service (GIDS) for children, is being sued over concerns that youngsters are being given "experimental treatment" without adequate assessments.

Keira's view as to her symptoms, and lack of warning about them:

I had symptoms similar to the menopause when a woman's hormones drop. I had hot flushes, I found it difficult to sleep, my sex drive disappeared. I was given calcium tablets because my bones weakened.

Keira claims she was not warned by the Tavistock therapists of the dreadful symptoms ahead. 'My female hormones had been flushing through my body and, suddenly, a curtain came down on them. It felt pretty bad,' she recalls.

And as to now:

'The treatment needs to change so that it does not put young people, like me, on a torturous and unnecessary path that is life-changing. I feel like I've been lied to because it did not make me feel any better.

As she struggles to return to life as a woman, she adds, with feeling: 'I don't want any more kids to suffer like me.

That poor woman. This is unconscionable, and the mere idea of the opposite side of this view even having a case to answer in court is so frightening it seems to be bordering on dystopia. In the meantime (and not directly applicable to FtoM transition) I know someone who is currently experiencing hideous, debilitating menopausal symptoms, and is unable to get HRT. There just isn't any available. Instead, her GP has prescribed her with ... Prozac.

I'm curious to know whether MtoF transitioners are experiencing the same issue.

[DuLANGMondeFOREVER]

Threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3804708-Stuck-between-two-sexes

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3802699-Sue-Evans-no-longer-lead-claimant-on-GIDS-case-has-been-replaced-by-detransitioner-Keira-Bell-who-had-her-puberty-blocked

[GenderfreeLang]

It is so awful what Kiera and others have been put through, some have even undergone surgery. Comorbidities must be assessed and dealt with prior to transition, failing to do this is failing young people. Watchful waiting allowed for this a medical pathway does not.

[Miljea]

Tricky one.

What if Keira had been deemed unsuitable for treatment, such as around 50% of referrals to The Tavistock Clinic are, according to today's BBC report, and had therefore damaged herself in some way?

I suspect TTC will win this one.

[Miljea]

I don't hold with the 'it's so awful what Keira and others have gone through'- what, the gender reassignment they so desperately wanted? Fought for? Threatened suicide over?

Let's face it, GA surgery, hormones, everything- has transformed a lot of people's lives for the better.

That JB now feels she made a grave error is sad, but seeking to blame those whose help she desperately sought- and was given- to transition is unfair, because she's changed her mind.

[DodoPatrol]

She HAS been damaged. Some of the damage is irreparable.

[FloralBunting]

Yeah, it's totally her fault that medical professionals physically damaged her because they were part of quack medicine fuelled by an ideology that told her she would be happier if she had these interventions and terrified her and those around her with the spectre of suicide if it didn't happen.

Or, actually, no, it's not, medical professionals have a duty of care and she is a brave woman to take a stand in defence of all the other young people damaged or potentially damaged by this bullshit.

I know where I stand, and it's not in the 'damaged people are collateral damage in the service of medical guesswork' camp.

[TedsFederationRep]

I don't hold with the 'it's so awful what Keira and others have gone through'

Really?

The Daily Mail article reports "For this tragic state of affairs Keira blames the treatment that began at the Tavistock in North London when, at 16, she no longer wanted to be a girl and asked for help. After three one-hour appointments, she was prescribed hormone blockers to halt the development of her female body."

Do you seriously think that a 16 year old girl should be given damaging drugs with lifetime effects after three one-hour appointments without anyone asking why first?

[Languishingfemale]

Responsible adults know that teenagers are prone to beliefs that on occasions harm them. That's why we don't give diet sheets to children with eating disorders, that's why we watch for those who are being radicalised online by older jihadists ... and so on.
The adults appear to have left the room with this group of children instead allowing their psychological and medical treatment to be influenced by lobby groups who frankly have no care for children's welfare, merely weaponising them as part of their own battles.
Keira is very courageous and has my support (and the support I suspect of the majority of parents watching all this in horror)

[PreseaCombatir]

Fought for? Threatened suicide over?
You’re supposed to save children from themselves, not encourage than. If a child seriously threatens/is contemplating suicide, then that indicates an issue with their mental health, I don’t think artificial hormones which bring in menopause type symptoms are really going to help, do you? Mbevause what you’re saying sounds a lot like victim blaming for where I’m sitting

[IAmFleshIAmBone]

I'm so glad people are finally speaking out about this. I find it totally bizarre that hormones and surgery would ever be given as treatment to a person with a mental illness. If someone has body dysmorphia you don't give them surgery to make them more comfortable.

[Doyoumind]

I woke up and saw the BBC News story about this and thought it was interesting that they were covering it now.

[Datun]

I don't hold with the 'it's so awful what Keira and others have gone through'- what, the gender reassignment they so desperately wanted? Fought for? Threatened suicide over?

You're kidding, right? It's the gender dysphoria that results from what they're being taught in schools. Given a spectrum of pics from Barbie to GI Joe and told to 'pick one'

Pick a stereotype based on fiction to see if you're trans, kids! Oh and by the way, parents, repeat after me, better a live son than a dead daughter, right?!

Perhaps campaign to stop this ideology being taught in schools rather than blame the kids for believing it, eh?

[FredaFrogspawn]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51676020

BBC picked it up. Good article.

[Igneococcus]

Sunday Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c59e5d0a-5af2-11ea-b224-188b67cae9b1?shareToken=fb3722db3c973e62fa024934df6dbc11

[deydododatdodontdeydo]

She says in the BBC article she was suicidal over this.
If they had not given her the treatment, she wouldn't be suing them, she'd be dead.

[Dozer]

That is hypothetical hyperbole.

[Dozer]

It says she was given the drugs after v few appointments and that “talking therapy” was v limited and not accessible at all post surgery/treatment.

[Floisme]

She. Was. A. Child.

[maeb]

Igneococcus - thanks for the share token.

[Al1Langdownthecleghole]

She says in the BBC article she was suicidal over this.
If they had not given her the treatment, she wouldn't be suing them, she'd be dead.

See here’s the thing. People at risk of suicide can be, are and should be, offered alternative treatment and support.

This is not an either or scenario.

And to repeat the comparison to anorexia. Let me diet or i’ll commit suicide?

[FloralBunting]

Can we please all tread carefully around the suicide topic? I know I'm preaching to the converted mostly, and my words are going to be wasted on the kind of people who are coming here to attack the young woman at the centre of this who was so let down as a child by the medics, but all the same - let's be wise. There may well be curious youngsters and others struggling with these topics, finding this thread, and they really don't need to hear those dangerous lies about their lives.

Anyone got the Samaritans link? And maybe also their guidance about it's best discussed?

[BovaryX]

Keira Bell's account in The Sunday Times about the speed with which she was put on a medical pathway is shocking. It is hard to grasp that young women are being encouraged to have draconian, irreversible surgery and then given no help or therapy. I wish Keira every success with this vital case. In 2009, only 40 girls were referred to the Tavistock. In 2017-2018 that number was 1806. What is it now?

Bell was depressed as a teenager and asked to be called by a boy’s name at school. Her GP referred her to the gender identity clinic. “From then on everything snowballed,” she said. “I was 16 when I had my first appointment at the Tavistock. After a handful of appointments, I was taking puberty-blocking drugs

[OldCrone]

If they had not given her the treatment, she wouldn't be suing them, she'd be dead.

So according to you, 100% of young people who don't get transgender hormone treatment on demand kill themselves, compared to none of those who get the treatment they want. How do you explain the tragic story in this thread?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3625515-Patient-of-webberlys-commits-suicide

[BillywilliamV]

My 16 yo DR is so wise and grown up in so many points, but SO wrong on others and Kiera is correct, she WILL not be told. I have to protect her from the worst excesses of her beliefs, until her frontal cortex forms sufficiently such that she can reason as a grown up. That is my job as a parent, society's job is to help me !

[BovaryX]

Floral
Absolutely agree. It is highly irresponsible to make such statements and also a misrepresentation of Keira Bell's own description of her experience. She is very brave to be at the forefront of this legal challenge and the medical professionals responsible for her treatment must be held accountable. The best of luck to her.