Times 16/2/1/9 Staff at trans clinic fear damage to children......

[Melroses]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/staff-at-trans-clinic-fear-damage-to-children-as-activists-pile-on-pressure-c5k655nq9

Does anyone have a share token?

[BetsyM00]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/staff-at-trans-clinic-fear-damage-to-children-as-activists-pile-on-pressure-c5k655nq9?shareToken=14ca44214d620680c9d1898b96492582

archive.fo/vfg2Z

[Melroses]

"The true histories of “highly disturbed or complex” child patients were not properly explored by Gids clinicians struggling with “huge and unmanageable caseloads” and afraid of being accused of transphobia if they questioned the “rehearsed” surface presentation. The report says the concerns voiced by staff are shared by Sonia Appleby, who is in charge of safeguarding at the trust."

[HawkeyeInConfusion]

Transing of kids is the thing that makes me angry beyond anything else on this subject.

[BetsyM00]

The bit that stood out for me was that despite the concerns of staff the service was found to be "operating in line with the best practice in this field internationally". Just means international standards are a bit shoddy.

Interestingly, the article is not open to comments.

[Anlaf]

Holy fuck

We often assume GIDs to be a benign actor in all this, making the best decisions for children in an practice with a shaky evidence base.

But that report is damning

[Melroses]

Historically, I expect that the children referred to them would have already been through layers of assessment elsewhere, having got as far as seeking help in the first place, so they would not have been making a primary diagnosis.

Now, children have access to many sources of 'information' and are able to self-diagnose.

[feministfairy]

What a frightening article that matches the experiences of so many professionals working with children and adolescents. It is a scandal of epic proportions that professional expertise and the insight and experience of parents has been so badly trashed by ignorant trans activists that the safety of children is totally compromised.

We know that this will not end well. We know that children are being groomed online. We know that teachers and other professionals working with children are being intimidated and silenced from taking protective action, we know that safeguarding guidelines are being repeatedly challenged and breached and that there is a concerted effort by trans activists to place trans children outside the protection of their parents and other responsible adults. This is clearly evidenced. Yet there is total silence from those charged with the welfare and safety of our children while these groups and individuals run amok destroying our nuanced child safeguarding systems.

It will be too late for a generation of children rendered infertile and mutilated if we have to wait for the first lawsuits against the organisations and individuals who failed to protect these children.

Thank you to Andrew Gilligan and the Times for continuing to expose this abuse of our children.

[ChattyLion]

This is so disturbing:

It says some children “take up a trans identity as a solution” to “multiple problems such as historic child abuse in the family, bereavement . . . homophobia and a very significant incidence of autism spectrum disorder” after being “coached” online and by trans activist groups.

The true histories of “highly disturbed or complex” child patients were not properly explored by Gids clinicians struggling with “huge and unmanageable caseloads” and afraid of being accused of transphobia if they questioned the “rehearsed” surface presentation.

This is an NHS service clearly under enormous financial strain and unprecedented caseload expansion who are necessarily making very fine judgements. This article underlines why watchful waiting should be the standard approach- the pressure on services shows exactly why it is needed.

Those groups online are absolutely amoral to be coaching kids what to say to the service to get medical treatment (ie encouraging kids not to be content with psychological support and proper exploration of the issues they are struggling with).

Basic medical ethics recognises that treatments should seek to preserve the child’s right to an open future. Blockers, and hormones putting kids on a track to permanent prepubescence and probably surgery at an age when they can’t possibly appreciate what they are giving up.. and what health problems they are taking on... is closing down future options and unnecessarily turning healthy kids into lifelong medical patients.

FFS, grown up women who ask for a sterilisation in their 20s and 30s all say that they are refused multiple times by their doctors in case they change their minds and want a baby. Why on earth are we setting young kids off down this track?

[Needmoresleep]

Follow the money..

Mermaids is an organisation whose purpose is to lobby organisations like Gids. A lot of their funding comes from the public sector.

And poor doctors get stuck in the middle. Perhaps the £500,000 proposed lottery funding could go to Gids instead,so staff have the resources to come to the right diagnosis for each child.

[Popchyk]

I don't know how this could actually be made any more plain.

These children are being damaged. Horribly and irreversibly.

Clinicians are being hounded and bullied by lobby groups (who receive public money to do the hounding and bullying).

How the fuck is there no public enquiry into this? This is state-sanctioned child abuse.

[LangCleg]

We know that this will not end well. We know that children are being groomed online. We know that teachers and other professionals working with children are being intimidated and silenced from taking protective action, we know that safeguarding guidelines are being repeatedly challenged and breached and that there is a concerted effort by trans activists to place trans children outside the protection of their parents and other responsible adults. This is clearly evidenced. Yet there is total silence from those charged with the welfare and safety of our children while these groups and individuals run amok destroying our nuanced child safeguarding systems.

This.

[NotTerfNorCis]

Does anyone here think it's possible that a child could be naturally 'trans' and need surgery as the only possible option? Even if it's just a small fraction of those being diagnosed as trans?

[JackyHolyoake]

And what does this remind us all of?

What was the response of the public authorities to the child sex abuse grooming gangs issue?

History is repeating itself in terms of the adults who work in our public authorities ... too scared to do anything about it.

With the grooming gangs they didn't want to "appear to be racist" and neglected the children because of it.

Now, with transgenderism, they don't want to "appear to be transphobic" and are neglecting the children because of it.

[Qcng]

Of course no child is trans.
It's an adult decision made by an adult who is fully adult enough to realise the consequence of choosing a lifelong medical pathway with irreversible surgeries, for themselves.

[LizzieSiddal]

That report is so shocking.

Yet we so called “T*Fs have been saying this is what is happening for many months.

When is anyone in government, going to actually stop this abuse of children?

[Melroses]

twitter.com/HaringeyReSist/status/1096133247074029568

Stephanie Davies Arai at Haringey ReSisters meeting.

[Sunshineofleith]

This is exactly why parents who are critical can no longer trust the very institution that states they will thoroughly explore other forces at play. Where do Gender critical parents go especially since the memorandum of understanding now rejects psychological interventions. How can parents help their distressed child when nobody cares. It is get them in, get them out without any thought to the damage they cause. I hope with all my heart that they will be sued. What price can you put on this though. I hope it is millions of damage worth if only to get the policy makers to take heed. Millions will not help me because you can’t buy a healthy body but at least it would get splashed out on the news for more and more people to bring a halt to this batshittery belief that it is in the child’s best interest. Rejecting oneself is a mental health issue. Why does this seem so obvious to me? So obvious to all of us except the policy makers. The TRA lobbyist have taken control of our kids. I hope this article will see a rethink as every time a concerned professional speaks out it helps our kids future

[feministfairy]

Yes JackyHolyoake
We've had to train people to understand that these girls saw their abusers as their 'boyfriends' and 'protectors' and sought them out. This led the police and other agencies to dismiss the girls as 'complicit' in their own abuse and therefore fail to protect them. There's been a massive programme of training to ensure that professionals understand this and start protecting children instead of abandoning them to their fate.
But this principle is completely abandoned in relation to rapid onset gender dysphoria and we are expected to accept that these children are in no way influenced by others and that their 'decisions' are totally grounded, fully informed and competent when nothing could be further from the truth. The stupidity is enraging!

[SharkBastard]

"Examples of cases in the report include a girl from a family with a history of abuse of females. The mother’s anxiety about having a daughter was transmitted to her child, who resolved to change gender. Another girl felt “deeply guilty” after her brother died tragically, so she decided to give her parents “their son back” by changing gender. Some openly homophobic parents sought transition for their children because they were gay."

This is truly truly heart breaking and awful

[Mrskeats]

feminist is on the money as usual
Do we think that all this also applies to the clinic in Leeds?

[Sunshineofleith]

Total grooming. The TRA know exactly what they are doing. Not only are they getting our kids young in order to satisfy their paedophilic tendencies, they are alienating the child from the parent as a result. Even those parents who do affirm will have to acknowledge that their child will only be able to have a relationship with these groomers. This is the end goal. It’s not about the child. It is for the adult.

[R0wantrees]

We often assume GIDs to be a benign actor in all this, making the best decisions for children in an practice with a shaky evidence base.

GIDS founder: Dr Domenico DiCeglie
Lifetime Honorary Consultant Child and Adolescent Psychiatrist

"You founded the Gender Identity Development Service. What gave you the idea to do so?

I was inspired to start the Gender Identity Development Service in 1989 by an encounter with a teenager, who was assigned female at birth, who perceived himself to be male. I saw him for exploratory psychotherapy in the mid-80s following three overdoses. In one of the sessions he wondered why his parents had not understood his situation when he was a child and sought professional help and support. This started my thinking about setting up a specialist service for this group of young people, but at the time I would never have imagined the developments which followed."

gids.nhs.uk/who-we-are/domenico-diceglie

from thread below,
kesstrel wrote:
I've just looked up Domenico di Ceglie. OMG. He was a Freudian, developing his ideas in the 1990s. The third paper down (Castaway;s Corner) gives some insight into the processes by which he developed his ideas:

//scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=Domenico+Di+Ceglie&btnG=

I was already wondering earlier today if one reason why the physical intervention model was developed would be because Freudian psychoanalytic therapy didn't work (which of course it wouldn't), and at that point better therapies of the CBT type hadn't yet been accepted as better...."
(extract in screenshot)


GIDS statement: Our Gender Identity Development Service
4 November 2018

As reported in the Observer today, the Trust is currently conducting an internal review into issues raised about the Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS).
(extract)
"The GIDS was founded in 1989 and is one of the longest standing services for gender diverse children and young people in the world. Domenico Di Ceglie, who founded the service, wrote a set of therapeutic aims which we still abide by today. This includes the unconditional acceptance and respect for young people’s gender identity. We do not therefore take a view regarding the outcome of an individual’s gender identity development: rather, our focus is to provide a space for exploration of gender, to ameliorate any negative impacts on general development and to work with young people to think through all the options open to them. These principles remain central to the delivery of the service.

A comprehensive psychosocial assessment precedes any referral to the endocrine clinic for consideration of physical treatments. Whilst it is the case that most young people attending the service have a wish to pursue physical interventions, 59% of those attending under 15 chose not to pursue an endocrine clinic referral.

We recognise that there are strongly held views among patients and families and their representatives including those who wish for physical treatment to be offered earlier or by those who feel that physical treatments should not be offered to young people at all. The service has worked hard, and continues to do so, to maintain a balanced view in which we are fully aware of wider social, cultural, legal and political factors, but maintain a focus on an individual approach to care informed by the particular circumstances of each young person we see.

We do not limit or curtail assessments because of pressure to move swiftly to medical interventions. With complex cases, rather than truncating assessments, we will often extend the time given to trying understand what may be going on. Whilst the national specifications against which the service is commissioned describe an assessment phase of between 4 and 6 meetings, one outcome of assessment may be further assessment. Nevertheless, we are always mindful that gender dysphoria is not in and of itself a mental health diagnosis. The young people seeking support from our service frequently experience high levels of distress, victimisation and isolation related to their self-identified gender. We are committed to ensuring we work to recognise and meet the various needs of all the young people we see in this complex and contentious field." (continues)
//tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/news/stories/our-gender-identity-development-service/


//www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/03/real-life-butterfly-families-transgender-child-tavistock-clinic

//www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/03/tavistock-centre-gender-identity-clinic-accused-fast-tracking-young-adults

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3413518-Observer-articles-on-fast-tracking-at-the-Tavistock-clinic

[Popchyk]

Gilligan seems to be receiving these confidential reports from different areas now.

Last week was the prison one in which bosses are considering transgender wings.

This week is the David Bell (senior clinician and former governor of the trust) report into staff concerns at GIDS, as well as the GIDS review in response.

Clearly Gilligan has seen both of these GIDS reports. Maybe passed to him by a concerned staff member? Presumably in the hope that the attention will bring about change.

[R0wantrees]

cf
PencilsInSpace's transcript of the young woman's speech who spoke incredibly movingly and powerfully at the end of the 'We Need To Talk' event in Washington.

It was clear how profound the effects she had on the women on the panel and I'm sure all who heard her.

[1:30:40]

"My name is [Cas?], I'm 19 and I just wanted to - so I just wanted to talk, it's not really a question. Ever since I came out, in eighth grade I've been completely involved in radical queer and trans circles and I just wanted to talk about my experience.

So when you first come out nowadays in - every LGBT group is very ... inclusive, let's just say. It's just - you must respect everyone. When you're young, you're like, OK, I mean I want to be accepted by people, it feels bad when people are mean to me, of course I don't want to be mean to someone, right? And so if you don't really - and everything is accepted uncritically.

I know this transman, a trans identified female, and they got a double mastectomy at 15 and had been on testosterone since they were 13 or 14, and you're not allowed to raise questions about that because then you're evil and sort of being in this circle where any woman who's gender non-conforming is obviously not a woman. It's very easy to gain that idea. I think that even older people theorising about it can understand conceptually, but being in that space it's a very difficult mindset to get out of. And I've been really lucky, I have some radical feminist friends who've been really nice but since I discovered and understood radical feminism - I'm skipping around this story but it's fine.

I recently lost my entire friend group. So I go to college but I lost all of my friends because they were like, actually, you having three separate opinions from me means that you're unsafe and are equivalent to a nazi. Because obviously, saying that lesbians can have sexual boundaries is the same thing as kill all Jewish people. You know, it's obviously the same statement. I don't know how anyone can see it differently.

But - OK, going front to back - being part of that environment and being a lesbian and having it be not a socially acceptable thing in these spaces that are intended for same sex attracted people - it's just extremely damaging and you start to think, well, maybe I'm not a woman. I don't feel like a woman, I don't look like the women around me, you know. And being a woman is deeply traumatising.

I think almost every trans female that I know, especially detransitioned women like myself - I got a double mastectomy - we are all - a lot of us are autistic and don't fit into gender roles and don't really understand it and we're absolutely preyed upon in that sort of way. And almost all of us have experienced sexual trauma and just being a woman and experiencing things like that makes you disgusted with your body and not want men to think about you, not want to be - it's just so profoundly traumatising.

And when you're given this option of, you can escape misogyny, you can escape experiencing things like this again, even though that's not true - women who pass as men, as soon as men find out - I mean I'm friends with a lot of other detransitioned women and a reasonable number of them pass as men in their daily lives - and as soon as someone finds out they're going to be treated with violent misogyny, right? And so it's a complete lie, but it's a very enticing lie.

And even speaking about the potential side effects, even if you're like, I support the decision that you're making but I want you to take into account the ways that this will cause damage in a genuinely informed consent way. I mean I'm against - you know what I mean. That's just not something that happens.

Additionally - so when I was going to get my double mastectomy after identifying as trans for four years, I just had to go to a doctor, say 'I'm trans and I want top surgery' and then they're like, OK, you know, then they'll ask me some questions about my life, but there's no like, maybe you're a lesbian who doesn't want to be seen as a lesbian because you live in a homophobic area, maybe you're dealing with - you need to deal with some sexual trauma. Maybe there's other things, other than this sort of idea. There's none of that, it's just like, OK! And so then the next time they were just like, OK I'll write a letter to your insurance saying they should pay for it.

You know, it's just - women are really being let down, especially lesbians.

And I don't know, it's just very - going on what you were saying? I just feel so bad about my peers because it's very hard to get out of. It's such a cult-like mindset because if you talk to anyone different you are going to be excommunicated, right? You're just not going to be allowed to interact with people. I mean it's like my friends who just dropped me, you know, it's really difficult - I don't know if I'm over my time limit - I just, I don't know, when people were saying about how it's really hard as a young person to not be accepted by your peers - it is terrifying, it is so ... scary, but it's really an important thing because so many women I know, every lesbian I know in my day to day life who's not a complete normie who's never been online, has identified as trans, even if they haven't transitioned, has previously identified as trans.

Because it's just - being a lesbian sucks, guys.

I mean it's wonderful once you're able to accept it and interact with other women, but this is a terrifying societal position to occupy and I'm completely proud and out now but it's just a really scary thing because these people who are supposed to be supporting you would rather you be anything but a lesbian."

//www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3507109-Pique-Resilience-Project-young-detransitioned-women-sharing-their-personal-stories

[Sunshineofleith]

The detransistioner stories that are coming out now are really important to helping us all understand the predatory aspect of trans. Such brave young people speaking out to protect their peers.