Cross dress males to be allowed in women only gym sessions in Glasgow

[MrsSnippyPants]

Mentioned before, I know, but quite a punchy headline today
www.heraldscotland.com/news/17588777.cross-dress-males-to-be-allowed-in-women-only-gym-sessions-in-glasgow/?ref=twtrec

The law that protects GRC holders, but not self identification?
The law that protects single sex provision, but not gender?

A lot of what we're seeing now is casual & non-deliberate women-haters jumping the gun on self-identification. They assumed back in 2016 that self-ID was a shoe-in.

But it hasn't happened yet, and hopefully never will.

So their interpretations of the 2010 Equalities Act are wrong & put them in danger of acting illegally.

So their interpretations of the 2010 Equalities Act are wrong & put them in danger of acting illegally.

Spot on! As much as I dislike the Equalities Act a lot of the problems havent been the act itself but rather a blatantly incorrect interpretation.

I've discussed this with a QC.

The law is gender reassignment, there is no legal basis for the expanded gender identity definition which includes cross dressers for "erotic purposes". I use that phrase as it was in the civil service policy discussed here, and I have seen defined as such in old Stonewall documents. Of course Pip Bunce etc. are doing it as gender expression, not sexual apparently. I don't see why they are unable to express any gender they like in the male facilities.

The equality act protects you at any stage of the gender reassignment process though, from just thinking about it to having had surgery. So what is to stop anyone saying they are thinking about gender reassignment?

Tunnocks my understanding is that you can't be discriminated against on the basis of gender reassignment e.g. for a job or service, but that also doesn't mean that you should be treated as a woman - only someone with a GRC can be treated as female for the purposes of the sex characteristic - they are two different things. If you haven't got a GRC and are male then the comparator is other men, not other women.

So what is to stop anyone saying they are thinking about gender reassignment?

That's a good question, tunnock. But a council actually coming out and specifying cross dressers is blatantly saying someone who cross dresses. The words cross dresses does have a meaning. And it's not living full-time as the opposite sex.

(Frankly, I think you could legally challenge 'living full-time as the opposite sex', too. And expose it for the bollocks it is.)

If you haven't got a GRC and are male then the comparator is other men, not other women.

Yes. I believe this was recently clarified.

So what is to stop anyone saying they are thinking about gender reassignment

Thats the problem.

The Sex Discrimination Act (Gender Reassignment) which preceded the EA had no such loophole.

So what is to stop anyone saying they are thinking about gender reassignment

"Thats the problem.

The Sex Discrimination Act (Gender Reassignment) which preceded the EA had no such loophole."

The problem is people are interpreting the EA wrongly. You can legally exclude men without GRCs from women's spaces, organisations are just choosing not to. Actually they put themselves at risk because a man without a GRC is ... a man legally - so other men who are not undergoing gender reassignment can argue that they should also be allowed into women's spaces if men who are claiming to be women (but without a GRC) are allowed in - because that's discriminating on the grounds of gender reassignment. It's a mess.

I read the comments on The Scotsman FB page and 90% of both men and women thought it was wrong.

Don't they realise that broadening the trans umbrella to include casual cross dressers makes it harder for genuine trans people who go down the proper route to be recognised as the opposite gender a harder time?

Indeed - like the world and his dog having ‘allergies’ (I’m reality intolerances or just don’t like something) so that people assume that people with real life or death allergies are being fussy PITAs.

I think making life harder for those with gender dysphoria who have jumped through hoops for a grc is part of the aim. The old school transsexuals get so much hate from the TRAs.

The fetishists don't want them under the umbrella.

The old school transsexuals get so much hate from the TRAs.

It’s almost like they DO think transsexuals are women.

Any comment from Glasgow Life yet?

Hmmm...maybe the head honchos are still on holiday.

Meanwhile others are at work, staffing the leisure centres, answering the phones, 'sensitively' explaining the policy and filling out Hate Crime paperwork.

Heigh ho.

I’d love to see those forms

“Mrs McNulty came to the reception to complain about the presence of a naked woman (one Miss Delores De FannyPack) in the ladies changing area who was - and I use Mrs McNulty’s phrase here - ‘having a wank’.

I immediately called Govan Police station and XePC Missy Sparkle was dispatched immediately and arrived on Xer unicorn. Mrs McNulty was handcuffed and read her rights under the Hurty Feels Law (made up 2019).

Deleores De FannyPack was uninjured but offered a wee sit down and sweet cup of tea and a runnocks tea cake in the managers office until she felt better and safe enough to continue her swim. Dr Smith gave her a check up to make sure there was no lasting damage”

I loved that bedtime episode of crumwatch, Lordetc. but surely the name of the legendary teacakes starts with a T?

I realise that you may be avoiding inappropriate advertising.

Highly relevant thread

My complaint to Glasgow Life re sports centres
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3567671-My-complaint-to-Glasgow-Life-re-sports-centres

I so wish the Daily Record had comments. Would love to read what the average punter on Argyle St makes of this.

LordProf that made me laugh. Mrs McNulty was also guilty of the offense of looking like a middle aged woman

Times like these I really miss my mum and grandma. They would have been down there like a shot. Very protective of ‘the girls’ they were.

And by girls I mean real ones.

The other element of this being totally missed is that when, as a natural result, women just stop going to women only provisions and they become by default trans provisions, there will be howls of protest and TRA unhappiness because women being present, in states of undress and vulnerability, in a women only situation, is the whole purpose of wanting to be in there.

Women are essential props. Without women womening and doing their perceived special secret womanly things creating an exciting environment to overcome boundaries into, there's nothing to be 'included' in or for some, and AGP is a reality, there is no sexual kicks and thrills. For some cross dressers and people with AGP there is plenty of written evidence by them that women being uncomfortable, angry or embarrassed (and unable to say anything about it) is a big element of the thrill.

This is about using women. Willing or not.

Deleores De FannyPack was uninjured but offered a wee sit down and sweet cup of tea and a runnocks tea cake in the managers office until she felt better and safe enough to continue her swim. Dr Smith gave her a check up to make sure there was no lasting damage”

I thought that was going to read: "safe enough to continue her wank".

Deleores De FannyPack was uninjured but offered a wee sit down and sweet cup of tea and a tunnocks tea cake in the managers office until she felt better. Dr Smith gave her a check up and stayed with her for half an hour, holding her delicate hand and patting her brow with a kitten, until he was sure that there was no danger of lasting damage and it was medically safe for her to return to the women’s changing room to wank.”

Fixed

So do all Glasgow leisure centres have sanitary bins / dispensers in the male toilets?
Surely the policy works both ways and they should be providing these essentials for xxwomen who want to cross dress as men and use the male changing.