Cross dress males to be allowed in women only gym sessions in Glasgow

[MrsSnippyPants]

Mentioned before, I know, but quite a punchy headline today
www.heraldscotland.com/news/17588777.cross-dress-males-to-be-allowed-in-women-only-gym-sessions-in-glasgow/?ref=twtrec

Yes but there are some numpties who believe that a male bodied person can be a woman (change their sex) because they say so. That is the argument!

I’ve been reading the SNP twitter account morning. Auld Nicola is still learning abkit feint a feminist and trans (woman) ally and getting her arse handed back to her. She ain’t responding though.

The new cheap gyms are great. I'm thinking mainly of the pools with their communal changing villages.

GirlofGold - I absolutely agree. There is really no choice ( apart from expensive Leisure Clubs with teeny tiny pools) if you want to swim.

And GL know this - so they can railroad this policy through and know that people cant go anywhere else. They can of course, just stop going.
That's the choice.

Poor business model if nothing else Glasgow Life.

See Equality Act 2010, Schedule 3: Services and public functions: exceptions

section 27 [single sex services]

subsection 6:

(6) The condition is that—

(a) the service is provided for, or is likely to be used by, two or more persons at the same time, and

(b) the circumstances are such that a person of one sex might reasonably object to the presence of a person of the opposite sex.

This means that in communal female spaces there is no case of discrimination if males are excluded.

See also section 28: gender reassignment which explains that transitioners, even with a GRC, can be excluded from the spaces, services etc of the opposite sex.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD

Yes but there are some numpties who believe that a male bodied person can be a woman (change their sex) because they say so. That is the argument!

They are free to believe this. We are free to disbelieve this. However, none of this is relevant to the law in question or it is relevant only in that these beliefs are protected under the EqA, too, but irrelevant to a provision made on the basis of sex.

The Equality Act is a balancing act between the rights of different protected groups and sets out how to resolve conflicting rights when this issue arises. That's why it has extensive schedules which discuss conflicts in over 900 separate paragraphs.

Their belief in TWAW does not in itself confer access rights by the way and it does not supersede the rights of the other groups to privacy, especially given that the EqA spells out that alternative arrangements can achieve the aim of protecting the rights of all groups.

Access rights to provisions made for one protected group are always limited to those who share the protected characteristic of that group. In this case, the protected characteristic is sex. Access rights depend on sharing the same sex, either - as I pointed out earlier - legal sex or biological sex.

Glasgow Council must now prove that they have given due consideration to groups who are particularly dependent on this single-sex provision because they have a different protected characteristic.

The problem we face is twofold. Firstly, organisations have been wrongly advised - comprehensively lobbied in a highly emotive manner over a number of years - and will now need to be shown that rather than preventing discrimination they are committing it. Secondly, we lack the relevant legal test cases. We need strong legal challenges where organisations refuse to correct their unlawful policies.

Women living in Glasgow affected by this must now urgently contact anti-discrimination lawyers to legally protest this policy change, as I believe any challenges must be made swiftly. AFAIK, it is best if they qualify for legal aid (but I can't recall the reason why right now).

In the Times today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cross-dresser-rule-for-changing-rooms-alarming-wmf8h5jlk?shareToken=f1cc5bb5ce774c89afbd5b60a6534fc1

CharlieParley, good stuff.

Sorry to be critical but I'm rather keen to have all the ways in which Glasgow Life is disregarding the law, and how unwoke the trans agenda is, spelt out bluntly and clearly as often as possible.

Good work.

I used to attend the Glasgow women's only sessions fairly regularly.

They were well attended, mostly older women and many older Asian women who I don't tend to see at the open sessions.

It wasn't just about swimming, you could also use the steam room and sauna which felt a lot more comfortable in a single sex rather than mixed group, especially if you were in there with just one other person.

There's always been a lot of push back from men against these sessions. They've got there way now.

On behalf of us non swimmers and non gym goers - there is neither where I live and am disabled - could I ask some of you brave women, especially if in Glasgow, to just go in the male changing rooms every time, just go in, rummage through your gym bag or whatever, just to be enough of a presence to let the men experience the discomfort... if enough women did it, just 5 minutes every visit, the stupid fucking 'rules' might be changed back.

if this happened at a gym that I used I would totally say to the staff ok I identify as a man and so I'm going to go into the men's changing rooms and I would do it

But men don't fear women in the same way. However worth a try for publicity value.

They didn't like it when Man Friday did it though. And they think their feelings are too important to be ignored, unlike many women.

How refreshing to see the Herald's photos alongside its article.

The public is so used to seeing airbrushed, fragrant, fragile, tortured souls and rarely get a glimpse of the sleazy side.

Sending cards is a lovely idea. I'm tempted to send them to journalists via their paper too.

OK I rarely give out personal details on here, but I attend women only swim sessions for many reasons, none of them religious (I know this is focused on a lot). I am body conscious after random men shouting at me about my weight/tits/arse, even in a 'good' way it affects me a lot. I was also raped not too long ago by a family 'friend' and have been sexually assaulted numerous times by random men also (never by a woman, this apparently predatory lesbian who goes arond assaulting everyone who fights for men to be in womens areas ). If any of these men decided to 'identify as women' it makes no difference AT ALL to the kind of men they are. Women only sessions are the only reason I can do swimming at all, and its needed apparently my physio said, as part of my physio, that I excercise often, and given my issues they say swimming is probably best for me..especially as I swam a lot before I got ill. So, if my leisure centre brought in these ridiculous rules where any bloke can join, I simply could not go anymore. Even if no blokes currently took them up on the offer, just the thought of any man entering when I am there really makes me feel,..ill. I know some will say thats over the top but, its how I am currently. I actually check on a regular basis that the 'rules' have not changed, thats how much this bothers me. I will not name the centre as TRAs will attack it, but luckily, some places still have common sense and refuse any male, regardless of identity, from female only sessions. Its fucking scary tha this nonsense seems to be spreading, despite the majority of the public being strongly against it.

Tilda, people could also brandish bloody tampons around in the men's changing room, never mind your toddlers trailing their poo and wee behind them which men then not to have to contend with in their changing areas, which might make the men think twice about these new rules.

Aww TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole - I hope you keep up the swimming.

perhaps the answer is to declare that you identify as the manager of the gym and you're going to change all these rules that you don't like?

It's worth remembering that all these policies have been rolled out on the assumption that the protected characteristic would be changed legally to gender identity, Maria Miller did attempt to do this back in 2016. But as it hasn't they are now just implementing illegal policies.

xenia after having a revolting experience of piss covered mixed sex loos recently i have come to the conclusion that a bloody protest might be the only thing that makes men take notice. i also quite like it as a reminder that the lived experience of being female is often very very far from the stereotype of clean, fragrant, delicate femininity.

Good point from @trousers.

Let's also remember the Women-Only swimming session in Dursley, Gloucestershire that changed to "Adults Only" following complaints of so-called exclusionary discrimination, in 2017.

Stroud Council's provider changed it back to Women-Only when women stayed away.

Aww TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole - I hope you keep up the swimming.

I will..my at the moment 15 mins per week (built up from 5 over many months), assuming my centre keeps common sense in place and does not buckle to pressure from TRAs (who will no doubt find out at some stage that they keep female sessions female and thats not on at all the terrible bigtos!)

The manager seens to really understand the issues though so I think its unlikely they will cave. He also knows that TRAs are purposely mirepresenting the Equalities act in order to manipulate buisinesses. And [ersistantly reassures me that this will not happen there. Hes probably sick of me keep asking staff and him if anythings changed, but if it does, the second it happens thats me not going there. As I said, even if no males do take up the offer, as even if none have so far, that doesn't mean one won't stroll in when you are changing.

Charley
Very good points. Eloquently put.

This is a mockery of what the Equality Act says.

There is absolutely no basis in law for allowing cross dressers into women only spaces. Other than the 1% of true transsexual people the law backs you telling the other 99% where to go !

The Equality Act specifically states (and I know many disagree but you cant change the fact this is current law!) that thee protected characteristic is gender reassignment - of the permanent kind. The guidance from EHRC is quite clear.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/gender-reassignment-discrimination

Time to get suing...