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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times article - calls to end transgender 'experiment' on children

721 replies

EweSurname · 07/04/2019 22:56

Looks like it's dropped!

Times article - calls to end transgender 'experiment' on children
OP posts:
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TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 10/04/2019 12:59

So given that there has been a particularly big increase in girls seeking to transition, if this is explained by a greater awareness of trans issues, where are the teenage girls of 20-30 years ago transitioning to become men? Where are the middle aged transmen telling the newspapers about their delight at their newly grown facial hair and deeper voices, yet agonising about how best to fill that space in their trousers? I don't see them. I wonder why that is?

Exactly. This alone tells you something is up really. That there is such a massive sex difference, near all older transitioners are male, and a huge majority of young ones are female. Mind, of course we aren't meant to mention sex, so we have to pretend its just people rather than males and females

R0wantrees · 10/04/2019 13:08

Girls in her sixth form all seemed to be bi- or pan- or demi- or what other variant of sexuality that teenagers were able to dream up, but gender was not a thing. It has since changed so fast. When she left the sixth form were about to get their first trans pupil and this pattern seems to have been replicated across the various affluent, academic West London independents.

Long article which may have some relevence & is worth reading in full
The dynamic involved with claiming/asserting sexual & then gender identities is linked.

"Collective narcissism and identity politics: No empathy required."
Posted on April 7, 2019 by leftinnewzealand

(extracts)
"So lets explore why narcissists are attracted to identity politics and social justice activism in particular. It has been postulated that this arena allows young radicals to indulge their narcissistic urges, enjoying power, support and praise, regardless of their conduct. Their theories and beliefs are absent of any responsibility, the only concern is for their group, as they embark on a journey of hedonistic self-gratification. This insulation from reality rejects any acknowledgement of personal agency and plays out as an overgrown group of kids who have created the rules to feed their self-obsessed, infantile fantasy land. In a cult like fervour they are bound together as a collective, propelled by teenage infused hatred, aimed at all who refuse to agree with their every utterance." (continues)

Intergroup aggression is a hallmark of group narcissism. They are more sensitive to perceived criticism externally, often resulting in the out group being attacked with disproportionate force. Again, these are overblown responses, but they are a reaction to a narcissistic injury. Below is a good example of what epitomises group narcissism. We have a charismatic leader, with her followers, who feels suitably emboldened to yell at a Yale Professor, over an extremely minor event. This collective tantrum was ‘initiated’ by Mr & Mrs Christakis (both professors) for suggesting that if students had a problem with a Halloween costume, then maybe they could discuss it with the wearer, rather than expecting the university to adjudicate. Below is a shortened video of the fallout in response to these benign ‘grown up’ emails. Take note that Yale is supposedly one of top universities in the world.

You may ask with some validity why I have concentrated most of this piece on linking narcissism with Social Justice Warriors and identity politics. There is no doubt that the right wing of politics and capitalism itself is awash with narcissists, history proves this; Hitler, Mussolini and John D Rockefeller to name a few. More recently we could easily use the dynamic duo of Benjamin Netanyahu and Donald Trump. Of course many CEO’s would have a range of narcissistic traits, some of these people who fit this criteria are; Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Jeff Bezos to name a few. But they are all relatively obvious, arrogant, overt narcissists. However, on the other side of political fence, there are scores of narcissists who go unchecked or are readily dismissed as “silly children” who will eventually mature. Unfortunately, they are growing up and changing the rules as they go, while destroying lives all to obtain their narcissistic supply." (continues)
leftinnewzealand.wordpress.com/2019/04/07/collective-narcissism-and-identity-politics/

Ohnononono · 10/04/2019 13:18

There are a few comments on the Stonewall Twitter feed saying that they are only interested in Trans people now due to the money. I have never understood though, where is is this money coming from? Why would the Trans-rights lobby have more money than the Gay-rights community?

OldCrone · 10/04/2019 13:19

Why would the Trans-rights lobby have more money than the Gay-rights community?

Maybe 'Pips' Bunce isn't the only cross-dressing banker.

Needmoresleep · 10/04/2019 13:23

TheGoals

A friend was talking about this, and how some middle-aged women she knew were discovering lesbianism, then I spotted this:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6840891/Why-20-years-married-man-LOL-thats-Late-Onset-Lesbian-wed-woman.html

Perhaps an equivalent, though one is obviously sex and the other gender. Both though suggest a level of fluidity that would argue against young children being able to make decisions that cement either for life.

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 10/04/2019 13:48

Maybe 'Pips' Bunce isn't the only cross-dressing banker.

Yup, I suspect that there are a lot more powerful men out there who like to wear their wife's knickers than we realise...

OldCrone · 10/04/2019 13:52

There are also some very wealthy people funding the trans movement, particularly in the US, including billionaire Jennifer (previously James) Pritzker. No idea if any of this funding finds its way to Stonewall's pockets.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3173651-Article-on-the-funding-behind-transgender-lobbying-organisations

hipsterfun · 10/04/2019 13:58

I’ve always heard it said that men in high-powered positions are overrepresented amongst those who pay to be ‘sissified’. I imagine such men are now under the Stonewall umbrella.

R0wantrees · 10/04/2019 17:27

In what other situation when professionals whistle blow their Safeguarding & Duty of Care concerns would this be a response?

(putting aside for one moment that the writer of this Opinion piece is currently suspended by the GMC having being found guilty of criminal charges last year)

Gaystar News:

9 April 2019 by Dr Helen Webberley

'What The Times newspaper got so wrong about trans kids and why it's dangerous
OPINION: 'Media coverage like this perpetuates misinformation and ultimately damages young vulnerable people'

(extract)
'The Times newspaper published four separate articles on 8 April about the healthcare provision for trans people in the UK, but oddly, they didn’t feature a single trans perspective.

Instead, they focused on interviews with clinicians raising concerns about the Tavistock and Portman Clinic, the only NHS gender clinic which treats children.

The clinicians, all five of whom have reportedly resigned from the service, speak of rushing to treatment, ‘damaging young bodies to serve societal issues’, and a lack of evidence. The Times claims that these NHS specialists, who are all quoted anonymously, walked out of their roles because they felt pressured into treating vulnerable children and teenagers without the necessary time to assess any reasoning behind their gender variance." (continues)

www.gaystarnews.com/article/what-the-times-got-so-wrong-about-trans-kids-and-why-thats-dangerous/#gs.4gw0lq

DodoPatrol · 10/04/2019 17:57

It's good that even Helen Webberley is publicising rushing to treatment, ‘damaging young bodies to serve societal issues’, and a lack of evidence.

R0wantrees · 10/04/2019 18:04

Her soution though is to promote speedier access to an affirmation-based service!
She ignores/dismisses the Safeguarding concerns of medical professionals
Its quite extraordinary

CallMeWoman · 10/04/2019 18:04

What doctor in their right mind would dismiss these sorts of concerns so cavalierly, insinuating that they were made up?!

OldCrone · 10/04/2019 18:16

What doctor in their right mind would dismiss these sorts of concerns so cavalierly, insinuating that they were made up?!

One who is currently suspended and ought to be struck off.

CallMeWoman · 10/04/2019 18:21

Quite.

OldCrone · 10/04/2019 18:26

Helen Webberley in Gaystar news:

Where the UK started from a position of doubt, requiring the patient and their support network to prove their gender variance, the US acknowledged that being trans was simply part of human variation, and treated accordingly.

Does "Dr" Webberley think people can change sex, or that they can literally be born in the wrong body?

Our approach has always been to believe that the patient is the expert in their own gender experience, rather than the clinician.

Even if the patient is a child?

There is no UK education programme at any level for trans healthcare. As such, in Bristol, I was expecting a room full of medical professionals hungry to learn about best practise coming out of the States. I’ll be honest, I was hugely disappointed at the lack of representation from senior decision makers and doctors keen to understand more about how to help trans patients.

It's because you're a charlatan, Helen, as is your mate Johanna Olson-Kennedy.

R0wantrees · 10/04/2019 18:30

Does "Dr" Webberley think people can change sex, or that they can literally be born in the wrong body?

In September 2018 Nicky Campbell gave Dr Helen Webberley a sympathetic platform on 5Live. He described her as "top of the expert mountain" on this issue.

Highlights included an NHS doctor when asked to define basic terminology,

Dr Webberley said "Biological sex is a tricky one" but 'cis-gender' is easier to define.

Also she didn't think much beyond the fact of procreation there is any relevence in seperating male and female.

Dr Helen Webberley said everyone else needs educating.

(Im not sure if its still available to listen to)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374512-trans-debate-bbc-5live-post-9am-today-mon-24th-sept

R0wantrees · 10/04/2019 18:32

Where the UK started from a position of doubt, requiring the patient and their support network to prove their gender variance, the US acknowledged that being trans was simply part of human variation, and treated accordingly.

Maybe its the private nature of US medical provision (which is of course the same basis that Dr Webberly & her husband operate) rather than NHS which is more significant.... Hmm

R0wantrees · 10/04/2019 18:33

The customer is always right of course.

JackyHolyoake · 10/04/2019 18:33

Does anyone else wonder why publications such as "Gaystar News" and "Pink News" express such interest in children who claim they are "transgender" and why they actively promote this agenda?

EweSurname · 10/04/2019 18:37

I have spent the whole day doing safeguarding training.

I've just read Webberly's article.

Fucking hell.

OP posts:
JackyHolyoake · 10/04/2019 18:43

Webberley says [in her Gay Star News opinion piece]

"Being trans is as inherent as homosexuality – you wouldn’t expect someone who was gay to prove themselves. Given our approach, we are naturally aligned with best practise coming out of the US."

Firstly, there is no scientific evidence that being "transgender" or homosexual is 'inherent', so Webberley states her opinion not proven fact.

Secondly, the US healthcare system is a profit-making business [as is Webberley's GP practice]; the NHS is not.

Micaela64 · 10/04/2019 18:48

Does anyone else wonder why publications such as "Gaystar News" and "Pink News" express such interest in children who claim they are "transgender" and why they actively promote this agenda?

Because they're just clickbait sites now that pedal divisive stories and have been taken over by radical "queers" as older gay editors etc have retired. I also think a lot of the LGBT orgs feel gay and lesbians are well integrated into society now (which isn't true, especially in minority/religious communities) so they need to focus on trans issues now to continue to have a purpose.

And for those asking why some people on Twitter are saying there's more money in trans than gay, I believe they're referring to links to big pharmaceutical companies involved in the medication and such.

Micaela64 · 10/04/2019 18:51

"Being trans is as inherent as homosexuality – you wouldn’t expect someone who was gay to prove themselves

That's a silly comparison. Gay people are not asking for life changing surgery, of course there needs to be safeguards and reassurance that people understand the gravity of the situation!

BarbieJellyBabyBrain · 10/04/2019 18:58

Being trans is as inherent as homosexuality – you wouldn’t expect someone who was gay to prove themselves.

Oh give me fucking strength.

FloralBunting · 10/04/2019 19:06

you wouldn’t expect someone who was gay to prove themselves.

You wouldn't fecking need to, and none of the rights that homosexual people have fought for involved infringing in the slightest on any heterosexual's comparible rights.

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